More bird IDs from Pond (1 Viewer)

Here are some more birds that I saw today. there are four pictures, two of them are the same bird (The bird in flight).

1: Female House Sparrow

2 and 3: Red-Tailed Hawk

4: Song Sparrow or Brown Thrasher

I agree with No.1 being a female House Sparrow,and with 2/3 being a Red-tailed Hawk(it's clearly a Buteo,and,while I don't know the North American species well,it looks most like Red-tailed:I would also guess that the other species are most unlikely in the area?).While I have seen neither suggestion,and wouldn't have come up with either(!),I believe that No.4 looks most like a Song Sparrow:the malar stripes and large 'blotchy' spot in the breast centre(like shown by Meadow Pipit or Corn Bunting) rule out Brown Thrasher.
Harry

I don't think 2 & 3 is a red-tailed hawk. For one, there's no rustiness on the tail. Could it be a Red-Shouldered Hawk instead?

gthang said:

I don't think 2 & 3 is a red-tailed hawk. For one, there's no rustiness on the tail. Could it be a Red-Shouldered Hawk instead?

Click to expand...

Why do you always do that? you post these pictures, every day almost, and then dispute the ID's you're given!
You claim to own 7 different field guides yet you don't appear to actually ever use them!
I'm not sure how people's patience hasn't been tried to the very limit long before now.

OK, OK. I do use the guides. But knowing myself, I think the birds in question should be a direct match (I'm semi-obsessive-compulsive...) to the illustration, photo, etc... But I always think something's off on a bird ID... For example, what appears to be a hood on the BOP above... I couldn't find anything in the guides with one of these, so I asked you guys...

Def a Song Sparrow and I'm steering clear of the Buteo - why not look through the previous threads?


North American
• Buteos Red-tailed Hawk perched.; Red-tailed Hawk from behind and why it's not Swainson's; "Krider's" Red-tailed Hawk, Probable Red-tailed Hawk managing to look like a Bald Eagle; Dark Morph, *Red-shouldered Hawk, another, Red-shouldered Hawk juvenile; Short-tailed Hawk juvenile; *Broad-winged Hawk, Ferruginous Hawk? in Scotland!!!

Hi 'Gthang',
For a start,not all Red-tailed Hawks have rufous tails!Juveniles/1st-winters certainly don't,for one.Not sure at what exact age/plumage class the rufous tail is acquired,but clearly this bird's plumage is in terrible condition.While not being sure of the moult strategy,it seems that this individual,whatever age it is,was moulting when you saw it.It could well be a 2nd calendar year bird,thus explaining the lack of rufous on the tail(I stand to be corrected by someone with a greater knowledge of Buteos,especially North American ones).
A very good pro-RT Hawk feature that I THINK can be seen on these pics is the dark leading edge to the underwing coverts:this is only shown by this species,as far as I'm aware,at least in America?
Harry

#1 is female House Sparrow, #2 & 3 Red-shouldered Hawk. There is no patagial mark showing in either picture. The tail is longer in relation to the wing root than on a Red-tail, and the pale crescent at the base of the primaries is ok for a classic Red-shouldered. The hooded look isn't unknown either. #4 Is a Song Sparrow as explained by Harry.

Stop trying to get a perfect match with pictures or drawings. It only works well for some adults and certain families. There are just too many ages, races, hybrids, colours, & plumage variations for any field guide to cover it all. Different guides show the same bird differently as well. The best they can do is give you the main points/ clues, and steer you to the proper genus & family.

I use references written specifically for banders to help identify birds in the hand. We still set free a bunch of "unknowns" every year after banding and photographing them. Once in a while we get an ID, specially on juveniles & immatures after they've been recaptured or recovered as adults. Believe it or not we found the best way to ID unknowns in the hand is to have someone hold it up 30 to 50 feet away and look at it through binoculars. Suprisingly it works about 75% of the time.

Hal

I'd agree with 2 & 3 being Red-tailed Hawk, many forms don't have red tail at all (incl. some adults)! Red-shouldered Hawk isn't very variable, and your bird clearly is not one of those (for once, where is the rufous shoulder?). With that wing-shape the one I would be asking about is Rough-legged... Still, I would clearly cast my vote on Red-tailed.

Regarding no. 4, I'd agree with Harry, and call it a Song Sparrow.

- And a last note about birding. Any birder who expect to id everything they see, need to choose another hoppy! In birding you WILL see individuals where you will be left standing with an open mouth, not even having an idea what it was. Some people try to id everything (no matter how short or poor their view was), and those are the people who get loads of mis-id's resulting in me seriously disbelieving what they claim to have seen...
Well, if birding was to easy, who would really care about it then?

I'll agree with the id's so far...the red-tail does at first apear (in my eyes) to be a red-shouldered, becuase of the windows on the edges of the wings. Although that is there, I have seen a fair share of red-tailed which I have taken a double take on who have that on their wings. It also seems as the the missing primaries make that space look larger then it really is. on the breast you can almost see a little black speckleing on the breast, where a rough-legged might show that lower (its also a little late for them). Even though it is hard to tell, I think this looks larger and bulkier then a red-shouldered. Last, I beleive that a Red-tailed would be far more common in your area Gthang, yet in a marshy place a Red-shouldered could show up.
Simon-
I agree with you on some acounts....but everyone starts somewhere, and in my opinion I wont tick of a bird unless I am completly sure of what it is, I have even erased past checks in my life list that I wasn't completly sure about. If Gthang wants to be sure about all his sightings, then just ignore the thread. But its seems to me Gthang, that you would get used to the female house sparrows, becuase they are right at your feeder! I also really dont like to go by the field guides, I dont think that there could be a field guide that shows every single way that a bird could look, that would take up a whole darn room! For example: the waterthrushes-if you look in a field guide. you might notice that the Northern is yellowish and the Louisiana is mostly white. even though it shows that, you must be careful because many Northern Waterthrushes are very pale as well.
Last Gthang, compare your pictures sometimes, by doing that you may not have to post pictures of birds that you have had idenifyed before. Also, dont always go with what someone else says, they arn't always right, even if they are a "big-shot."
Taco

I think the Buteo is a red-tailed. A not so common of a field mark is the dark leading edge of the wings, this bird shows this line. Only red-tails have this mark. Also, the head is dark like I'd expect on a light phase red-tailed. just my thouights, Van