Too good to be true? (1 Viewer)

Maybe there is another thread about this. Over on Cloudy Nights I ran across a thread about the possible savings to US customers if you purchase expensive optics from Europe, due to the favorable Euro/dollar exchange rate (currently 1 Euro = ~1.05 US dollars). The savings is apparently quite substantial. By my calculation it seems too good to be true. What am I forgetting here:


$547 savings? I must be mistaken. The Cloudy Nights thread also said there is no customs duty on binoculars imported to the US, and the shipping includes insurance with a solid 14 day return policy. There must be some downside? Would the bins be covered under standard Swarovski US warranty?

Dave

I've heard it said that European bins don't come with the warranty or the same warranty because of warranty laws in Europe (?)

Admittedly just spitballing...

The drop in the Euro has been dramatic, very close to the US dollar, and so some
large deals may be available. Same thing goes for the Japanese Yen.

Beyond that, with the premium optics, it is worth a look.

Jerry

I'm not really in the market for new bins. Mostly I just wanted to know if my calculations are correct, and is there some additional cost or risk to consider? Doing the same arithmetic as above for the 95mm Swarovski spotting scope, I calculate a savings of over $1000. Even if the warranty is not the same, these seem like huge savings. I have no idea whether this "Teleskop Service" site is the best place to order, but if anyone decides to try ordering something, I'd be interested how it works out.
Dave

PS. By the way, I noticed these old style 7X50 SLC's "in stock" for ~$1235 plus shipping... Looks like a rare chance to get a nice new 7X swarovski roof...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1926_Swarovski-SLC-7x50-B.html

Dave

Hello Dave,

The North American importers do not recognize the guarantees on European purchased binoculars. The American importers "invest" in sales campaigns and customer service and regard those who buy in Europe as free loaders.

Additionally, such purchases may be subject to customs duties. I once bought an old Leitz binocular from a vendor in Germany. I was charged $5 duty, but the shipper, FEDEX charged me an extra $25 for covering the duty in advance of my receiving the binocular. The post office would just hold the item, at your local post office until it was paid, if you were not home. I have no idea what the policy is at UPS.

Although I am not recommending that you buy from abroad, use a credit card which has no foreign transaction fees and uses a reasonable exchange rate. In total, such a transaction might have more cost than you realise, but yes the Euro is almost 20% lower than last August.

We have a couple of BF members in Germany, maybe they know something of the vendors.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

Thanks Arthur,
So it's kind of like gray market goods if you don't get any warranty... I'm sure that would scare a lot of people off, but for factory new Swarovski gear, I'm not sure it would scare me off. As far as a North American distributors regarding someone as a "free loader" who purchases in Europe, I think I could live with that, if it saved me $500-$1000! |=)| But I understand that the final savings may not be that great, due in part to additional credit card fees and other possible duty charges. But assuming someone can live with the no warranty risk, I wonder what the true final savings really is? Like I said, I'm not shopping for new optics, but I might be interested in another smaller purchase (same principal extends to all goods).
Dave

I bought a binocular for astronomy from them 3 or 4 years ago, a Docter Nobilem 15x60. The exchange rate wasn't so advantageous then, mainly I went with a European dealer because that brand seemed so little known in the US. I didn't have to pay the VAT which was a big savings compared to a European purchaser. Shipping was pretty high, about $50, but I still made out all right. The folks were very nice, and a guy who wrote good English "talked binocular talk" fluently and put me at ease. I got the normal full warranty.

The only difficulty was the heightened security requirements for an overseas purchase. It took a couple of tries before a FAX conveyed my identification to their satisfaction. When the credit card purchase went through, VISA immediately called to me to confirm it was legit--which I appreciated.

I've never had any problems with the binocular, fortunately. That could have turned into a hassle at such a distance, I imagine.

Ron

opticoholic said:

Thanks Arthur,
So it's kind of like gray market goods if you don't get any warranty...
Dave

Click to expand...

Hello Dave,

The warranty in the country of purchase is still valid. If you have a problem, you have to ship it to them, at your own expense, probably.

Happy bird watching.
Arthur :hi:

I've no idea about buying from the U.S., but the vendors mentioned, Teleskop Express, are a reputable outfit, from whom I have bought quite a few items. I would recommend them highly.

The sole distributor for Swarovski in North America is SONA (Swarovski Optik North America). They know by serial number which binoculars they imported and will only warrant those. All others are considered grey market, so the buyer is on their own. Frankly, it's a very poor way to try and save money considering all the headaches that are potentially involved.

Ed

elkcub said:

The sole distributor for Swarovski in North America is SONA (Swarovski Optik North America). They know by serial number which binoculars they imported and will only warrant those. All others are considered grey market, so the buyer is on their own. ...

Ed

Click to expand...

Interesting behaviour for a company operating internationally.

elkcub said:

Frankly, it's a very poor way to try and save money considering all the headaches that are potentially involved.

Click to expand...

With 500 $ savings one can afford quite some Aspirin for the headaches ...

The calculation example also shows how much the importers currently are cashing in on the echange rate advantage. They better adjust their prices soon, if they don't want to provoke more people looking for grey imports...

Elmer Fudd said:

Interesting behaviour for a company operating internationally.

Click to expand...

How so?

SONA is registered with the Rhode Island Secretary of State and it has a Federal Employer Identification Tax Number. It is subject to the bureaucratic complexities of both the State Government and the US Government. And it is represented, unsurprisingly, by an American Attorney.

Bob

SONA vs. European Warranties

Just thought these two warranty statements might help. They need to be read carefully to reveal the potential problems/difficulties involved. The first is SONA. The second is European.

Ed

Interesting that things have changed so much in recent years. It used to be the other way round that optics were so much cheaper in the US than in Europe. For years, I essentially bought all my stuff in the US. At times, I had B&H send me things, and it was still cheaper despite the fact that I had to pay postage and Swiss VAT. At other times, I had my son ordering optics for me at EO. They don't honor foreign credit cards. In those cases, the items sometimes were taken to Switzerland on an occasional visit. I still recall the incredible savings I had getting a Leica Ultravid 10x25 for around $425. In that case, the binoculars rested about half a year at my son's place. But it was just before an announced price increase. So that was the best solution. Of course, these are "tempi passati" now. But it is certainly worth checking all possibilities.

As a graduate student in the US more than 40 years ago, I had cameras sent to me from Hong Kong. The only way I had been able to afford them at all. Warranty issues may be a problem, but I never had anything over all this time. I would think "non"-mechanical items like binoculars are less critical than cameras. And I doubt I would now buy Zeiss that way. Just depends on the perceived reputation and QC of a company.

I was curious about this, so I recently sent an email to SONA asking them what would happen if I bought a Swarovski in Austria while on vacation there and brought it back with me to the US. The rep said that I would not have a problem getting warranty service here in the US.

Of course, this is a much different situation than buying a grey market unit from an unauthorized distributor here in the US. The policy is clearly meant to void the warranty in this circumstance.

It is also different than buying from an authorized distributor in Germany and having it shipped to the US. I'm not sure how the warranty would be affected by that case.

Saturninus said:

I was curious about this, so I recently sent an email to SONA asking them what would happen if I bought a Swarovski in Austria while on vacation there and brought it back with me to the US. The rep said that I would not have a problem getting warranty service here in the US.

Of course, this is a much different situation than buying a grey market unit from an unauthorized distributor here in the US. The policy is clearly meant to void the warranty in this circumstance.

It is also different than buying from an authorized distributor in Germany and having it shipped to the US. I'm not sure how the warranty would be affected by that case.

Click to expand...

That is what I meant.

Or think about a scientist, born, raised and long living in Germany or Austria, buying all his equipment in his homecountry and then moving to the U.S. because he got another, even better job. Or think just the other way round.

Why should he or she be excluded from the warranty by a close-minded "contract".

Having worked in an international company I might be able explain one aspect of why different warranties are offered in one zone as opposed to another.

You would think that all branches of a company, no matter which country they are based in would all operate in the same way. And in years to come as internet buying becomes even more normal around the world maybe this will happen.

But for now my experience tells me that each overseas company (and in this case the overseas company is SONA) will have to buy product from the parent company (at prices called 'transfer prices' and which are the cause of many heated discussions) and they have profit targets to reach in the market in which they operate. This means they have to weigh the costs of all activities they undertake to sell in their market and amongst those costs are dealer discounts, transportation, advertising and other marketing (like shows and fairs) and warranty support. What warranty is offered will depend partly on what the competition is doing and what it is felt the market expects and whether this can be financed out of the $$ dealers pay to stock the bins.

In other words the overseas company has to make a financial success in the market conditions they are working amongst in their own territory and they may come up with a package that is different from that offered elsewhere in the world. Don't forget that companies can get this wrong and people can lose their jobs. Leica pretty much went bust a few years back and was lucky to get bought and for new investment to be put in.

People who purchase across these territorial borders are complications but before we get to feel too sorry for the companies who would rather these complications didn't exist, lets remember that the internet is chipping away at these territorial boundaries everyday and in years to come this may force a change in the present territory-driven paradigm.

Lee