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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 10:51   #1751
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I have read reference to the latest IOC update resurrecting Lesser Redpoll. I have found their recording of subspecies haphazard and I am unsure if they have already seen it?

All the best
Whilst at the same time

'Decline proposed lump of Arctic/Hoary Redpoll w Common Redpoll'


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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 12:17   #1752
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But it is written in German and if the WP Big Yearers doesn't like to go to Germany for such a stunning species as Black-browed Albatross there is no reason at all to visit German language for Wood Duck et al...
Daniel, be patient, I am sure they will come to Germany. I met the guys in Eilat, and when they heard where I come from they were inquiring about Yellow-headed Amazon in Stuttgart, which is not too far from my place, at least from a Swedish perspective. With a certain disgust of course (concerning the Amazon, not Stuttgart ). I guess on the same trip they will clean up with Germany's second iconic species, Swan Goose.

I assume with Wood Duck in Cat. C Germany will eventually be ahead of Portugal regarding the number of countable plastics.
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 12:42   #1753
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I have read reference to the latest IOC update resurrecting Lesser Redpoll. I have found their recording of subspecies haphazard and I am unsure if they have already seen it?
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Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Whilst at the same time

'Decline proposed lump of Arctic/Hoary Redpoll w Common Redpoll'
Methinks Paul's second part "I have found their recording of subspecies haphazard" refers to the Swedish yearlist team, not IOC. That right, Paul? It took me a while to realise that!
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 13:00   #1754
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Methinks Paul's second part "I have found their recording of subspecies haphazard" refers to the Swedish yearlist team, not IOC. That right, Paul? It took me a while to realise that!
I did realise that Nutty and should have edited the quote to reflect.

I was simply noting that they split one and reject the lump of another which seems at odds with the recently received wisdom which was was trickling down?


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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 13:14   #1755
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Daniel, be patient, I am sure they will come to Germany. I met the guys in Eilat, and when they heard where I come from they were inquiring about Yellow-headed Amazon in Stuttgart, which is not too far from my place, at least from a Swedish perspective. With a certain disgust of course (concerning the Amazon, not Stuttgart ). I guess on the same trip they will clean up with Germany's second iconic species, Swan Goose.

I assume with Wood Duck in Cat. C Germany will eventually be ahead of Portugal regarding the number of countable plastics.
Do you have any links to the Category C species in Germany and where to find them? I've seen a few pictures of Swan Goose there and they all look like domestic geese to me.
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 13:27   #1756
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Do you have any links to the Category C species in Germany and where to find them? I've seen a few pictures of Swan Goose there and they all look like domestic geese to me.
The complete list of species recorded in Germany including their category can be found here:

http://www.club300.de/ranking/birdlist_de.php

Swan Geese are given as Anser cygnoides f. domestica. Nothing more to add...

Oh, and we're still waiting for the "Where to watch plastics in Germany" to be published!

Last edited by flownek : Sunday 16th July 2017 at 13:30.
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 14:20   #1757
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Daniel, be patient, I am sure they will come to Germany....
Yes but for me it doesn't help that they will come here for the plastic (although I have to say that I personally liked to watch the Amazon in Stuttgart some ten years ago and the Alexendrine parakeet last year in Düsseldorf!) and already managed to miss the chance for the albatross (for the whole year probably?)...
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 15:20   #1758
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Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Methinks Paul's second part "I have found their recording of subspecies haphazard" refers to the Swedish yearlist team, not IOC. That right, Paul? It took me a while to realise that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
I did realise that Nutty and should have edited the quote to reflect.

I was simply noting that they split one and reject the lump of another which seems at odds with the recently received wisdom which was trickling down?

A
Yes - I was referring to the WP Team's recording of subspecies. If you click on Taxonomic rather than date, it organises their year list in taxonomic order:-

http://www.bigyearwp.com/index.php/igoterra-ticks/

On redpolls:-

239 Common Redpoll Acanthis flammea flammea 01.20 Sweden
244 Arctic Redpoll Acanthis hornemanni 01.23 Sweden

On Yellow Wagtails, some obvious missing holes perhaps:-

156 Western Yellow Wagtail Motacilla flava 01.12 Kuwait
Western Yellow Wagtail Motacilla flava lutea 04.09 Kuwait
Western Yellow Wagtail Motacilla flava iberiae 02.03 Morocco
Western Yellow Wagtail Motacilla flava pygmaea 05.12 Egypt
Western Yellow Wagtail Motacilla flava feldegg 03.24 Israel
Western Yellow Wagtail Motacilla flava thunbergi 02.03 Morocco

All the best
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 15:28   #1759
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The complete list of species recorded in Germany including their category can be found here:

http://www.club300.de/ranking/birdlist_de.php

Swan Geese are given as Anser cygnoides f. domestica. Nothing more to add...

Oh, and we're still waiting for the "Where to watch plastics in Germany" to be published!
Thanks. Anser cygnoides f. domestica says it all really!
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 15:35   #1760
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The complete list of species recorded in Germany including their category can be found here:

http://www.club300.de/ranking/birdlist_de.php

Swan Geese are given as Anser cygnoides f. domestica. Nothing more to add...

Oh, and we're still waiting for the "Where to watch plastics in Germany" to be published!
Interesting that there is no mention of Rhea on the German list as Cat C. I know that there is the "3 generations" thing before a species can be classed as Cat C in Germany, but seems they are breeding well and have been for 16 years or so. Let down by their own longevity!

http://www.10000birds.com/greater-rh...w-big-bird.htm

Certainly a better bird than those horrendous Swan Geese!
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 16:40   #1761
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I assume with Wood Duck in Cat. C Germany will eventually be ahead of Portugal regarding the number of countable plastics.
I'm struggling to understand this post considering you have 16 category C species in Germany (according to the link provided above), versus 8 in Portugal, which includes one extinct and one C6 (vagrant from other introduced populations). Even if the C list in Portugal gets updated and includes 1 or 2 more species, it doesn't go near Germany.

So will you please elaborate?
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Old Sunday 16th July 2017, 21:41   #1762
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I'm struggling to understand this post considering you have 16 category C species in Germany (according to the link provided above), versus 8 in Portugal, which includes one extinct and one C6 (vagrant from other introduced populations). Even if the C list in Portugal gets updated and includes 1 or 2 more species, it doesn't go near Germany.

So will you please elaborate?
To be honest, I counted neither the German nor the Portuguese Cat C species. I just always felt that Portugal has many more than the rest of Europe. Completely wrong I see...
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 05:32   #1763
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... and already managed to miss the chance for the albatross (for the whole year probably?)...
Seems that they haven't missed the chance completely. See yesterday's observation off the Belgian coast! A 1st for Belgium - as the Oriental Pratincole was a 1st for Finland two days earlier! Is/was the latter twitchable? I'm very curious what they will do next or where they will go first when they are on the road again from today on...
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 14:18   #1764
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I just read in a publication about cat C species in Germany that they assume it is unlikely that this species could get self sustaining populations in Europe. But theoretically it could be established earliest in 2019. That is based on the population in Northrhine-Westphalia where the species breeds annually since 1995 and the actual population size is estimated on up to 20 breeding pairs.

The publication is linked here:
http://www.club300.de/publications/index10.php

But it is written in German and if the WP Big Yearers doesn't like to go to Germany for such a stunning species as Black-browed Albatross there is no reason at all to visit German language for Wood Duck et al...
There's also a newer publication with a new way to assess if a bird is naturalised here

Bauer H-G, Geiter O, Homma S & Woog F 2016: Non-native bird species in Germany – revision of national status categories. Vogelwarte 54: 165-179.


Currently we have the following category C species on our national list:
Black Swan as C1 and C5 (ringed bird from dutch population), established 2004
Snow Goose as C1 and D, established 2011
Bar-headed Goose as C1 and probably C5, established ~2005
Canada Goose as C1 and C5, established 1981
Ruddy Shelduck as C1 and C5, established ~2001
Egyptian Goose as C1 and C5, established ~2010
Mandarin Duck as C1 and possibly C5, established 1985
Common Pheasant as C1, established ~1750
Rock Pigeon as C1 and probably C4, established prior 1500
Rose-ringed Parakeet as C1, established 1993
Alexandrine Parakeet as C1, established 2012
Yellow-headed Parrot as C1, established 2010

(Whooper Swan, Mute Swan, Greylag Goose, Barnacle Goose, Red-crested Pochard, Ferruginous Duck and other geese and ducks in A and C2)

Swan Goose as C4, established 2016

Ruddy Duck as C5, established in GB, F, NL
African Sacred Ibis as C5, established in F, I (however no record securely assignable to any of the established populations, thus categorization heavily criticized)

Currently in category E1
Greater Rhea, will become established 2025
Wood Duck, will become established in 2019
Greater Flamingo, established under time and generation criteria in 2012 but population of 2-3 pairs too small and survival only due to human help (electrical fence, agradation control)
Chilean Flamingo, established under time and generation criteria in 2013 but population of 5-8 pairs too small and survival only due to human help (electrical fence, agradation control)
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 14:22   #1765
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They went to Biebrza and secured Aquatic Warbler. Definitely a wise move...
They don't have Lesser Redpoll yet (quite surprisingly) and will lose Thayer's Gull when the new IOC checklist becomes official
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 14:47   #1766
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Good about Aquatic Warbler. It seems that the team chases rarities only in time free from their regular itinerary.

In the theme of cat C species. It was pointed that Common Pheasant in many regions of Europe, without releases and active hunting management, relatively quickly dies out. Anybody ever attempted to make a map or list which populations of Common Pheasants in Europe are really stable and unstable established?
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 15:00   #1767
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Good about Aquatic Warbler. It seems that the team chases rarities only in time free from their regular itinerary.

In the theme of cat C species. It was pointed that Common Pheasant in many regions of Europe, without releases and active hunting management, relatively quickly dies out. Anybody ever attempted to make a map or list which populations of Common Pheasants in Europe are really stable and unstable established?
It is mentioned in BWPi, with most populations from Turkey and Caucasus eastwards regarded as wild. There was some speculation that the resident population in eastern Greece may also be wild.

Good to see they did the reasonable thing in getting Aquatic Warbler now, rather than much more speculatively in Portugal in late August. Website updated as well:

http://www.bigyearwp.com/index.php/igoterra-ticks/
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 16:49   #1768
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Greater Rhea, will become established 2025
... what certainly will happen! :-)
I saw 49 in one flock last year. Plastic or not, for me it was definitely worth seeing.
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 17:00   #1769
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There was some speculation that the resident population in eastern Greece may also be wild.
According to the "Atlas of breeding birds in Bulgaria" (Inakov 2007) Ph. c. colchicus was autochthonic in Bulgaria - mostly in the southeast - since the Pleistocene. It had a natural population in the southeast and some isolated areas further north and west until 1895 when the first Ph. c. torquatus were introduced. The introduction of other ssp. and the interbreding/hydridisation led to an extinction of the wild form, which where still around by 1960. The last birds with typical morophological features for the ssp. colchicus where observed for the last time around 1989.
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 18:17   #1770
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... what certainly will happen! :-)
I saw 49 in one flock last year. Plastic or not, for me it was definitely worth seeing.
Wow!! What's their reaction to people, flee or attack?
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 19:32   #1771
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Wow!! What's their reaction to people, flee or attack?
Neither - nor... They are not exactly tame, but also not realy afraid. As far as I know there where no incidents with people, but one has to drive carefully, cause they sometimes stand unexpected behind bends on roads.
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 20:29   #1772
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Good about Aquatic Warbler. It seems that the team chases rarities only in time free from their regular itinerary. ...
Definitely the right decision to go for Aquatic Warbler in Poland. But about twitching in spare time you are not completely correct. Today they wanted to start the next Mediterranean leg. So hopefully they do some twitching and cleaning-up before starting in Spain with White-rumped Swift et al plus plastics...
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 20:34   #1773
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Neither - nor... They are not exactly tame, but also not realy afraid. As far as I know there where no incidents with people, but one has to drive carefully, cause they sometimes stand unexpected behind bends on roads.
Thanks!

Bit of a shame about the two white ones though, spoils the effect and makes them look the more plastic. Without them, you could pretend you were in Argentina.
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Old Monday 17th July 2017, 21:51   #1774
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They went to Biebrza and secured Aquatic Warbler. Definitely a wise move...
A very wise move!!
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Old Tuesday 18th July 2017, 07:53   #1775
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The guys are in Stuttgart now. I wonder what they are doing there
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