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Elephant Hawk larva. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter harry eales
- Start date
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
Update on the Elephant Hawkmoth Larva. 22.08.2005
Eight larva out of the 24 that I reared from ova, have taken on the very oily appearance that they adopt prior to spinning up a cocoon prior to pupating. These have been segregated into a large box partially filled with heat steralised and very dry Willowherb leaves. These larva have started to spin the dry leaves into a loose shelter in which to pupate.
These larva are by no means the largest larva of the brood, so I am assuming that they will be male specimens. As other larva approach the pupating stage I will confine them to different boxes containing similar pupating material. Once they have all have all pupated, I will check the sex of the pupa from each box to see if I am correct in my supposition that it is the male larva that pupate earlier.
Harry
Eight larva out of the 24 that I reared from ova, have taken on the very oily appearance that they adopt prior to spinning up a cocoon prior to pupating. These have been segregated into a large box partially filled with heat steralised and very dry Willowherb leaves. These larva have started to spin the dry leaves into a loose shelter in which to pupate.
These larva are by no means the largest larva of the brood, so I am assuming that they will be male specimens. As other larva approach the pupating stage I will confine them to different boxes containing similar pupating material. Once they have all have all pupated, I will check the sex of the pupa from each box to see if I am correct in my supposition that it is the male larva that pupate earlier.
Harry
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
Update on the Elephant Hawk larva 25.08.2005.
All but four of my larva have now spun up in cocoons made out of dried Willowherb leaves. The remaining four larva are the largest examples of this species I have ever encountered, measuring some 3.75" long, without them stretching out their head into the 'trunk' state.
Once they have started to 'spin up' I intend leaving them alone for some three weeks before removing them from their cocoons and placing the pupa into winter storage. So far, not one has been lost for any reason, although one larva did manage to escape unnoticed, whilst I was replenishing the food supply, and wander off down the hall where I found it the following morning, looking rather hungry. lol.
Harry
All but four of my larva have now spun up in cocoons made out of dried Willowherb leaves. The remaining four larva are the largest examples of this species I have ever encountered, measuring some 3.75" long, without them stretching out their head into the 'trunk' state.
Once they have started to 'spin up' I intend leaving them alone for some three weeks before removing them from their cocoons and placing the pupa into winter storage. So far, not one has been lost for any reason, although one larva did manage to escape unnoticed, whilst I was replenishing the food supply, and wander off down the hall where I found it the following morning, looking rather hungry. lol.
Harry
Harry,
I live in Katy, TX (just outside of Houston). I found a Elephant Hawlk Larva on a plant outside my door today. I did extensive searching on my computer to identify it. I am amazed because I have found only two people in the US referencing this type of larva. One in Hawaii and the other in Colorado (who received it as a gift from a friend in the UK). Is this common to see in our area? Also, I would love for my four children to see it become an adult. What do I need to do to help this happen?
We have placed it in a plastic insect container with several branches with leaves from the plant where we found it. Is that good enough?
You seem very knowledgable and my girls and I would appreciate any insite you can give us. Thanks!
I live in Katy, TX (just outside of Houston). I found a Elephant Hawlk Larva on a plant outside my door today. I did extensive searching on my computer to identify it. I am amazed because I have found only two people in the US referencing this type of larva. One in Hawaii and the other in Colorado (who received it as a gift from a friend in the UK). Is this common to see in our area? Also, I would love for my four children to see it become an adult. What do I need to do to help this happen?
We have placed it in a plastic insect container with several branches with leaves from the plant where we found it. Is that good enough?
You seem very knowledgable and my girls and I would appreciate any insite you can give us. Thanks!
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
T Foster said:
Hello T. Foster,
Welcome to the entomological section of Bird Forum.
The Elephant Hawkmoth does occur in the USA, but I do not have any data as to its range in your country. It is a very widespread species in Britain and over nearly all Europe south of the Arctic Circle to the Mediterranean Sea.
Worldwide there are some 1,100 Hawkmoth (Sphingid) species so I hope you have identified your larva correctly. If you could post a picture of it here, it would help us to verify the identification.
Has the larva eaten any of the foodplant you have given it? If so, it looks like that may not be a problem. Elephant Hawkmoth larva will eat a variety of different plants.
Rearing them isn't a difficult thing to do, and your insect cage should be suitable. I would recommend however that you change the food plant twice a day. With this species it is important not to put the cut lengths of foodplant in water as they tend to suffer and die if this is done. Cleanliness is important and the cage should be cleaned out every time you change the food.
Try to avoid handling the larva if possible, they have to moult several times during the larval period and handling them during the moulting process may kill them. Wherever possible lift the stem of the foodplant on which the larva is resting out of cage, then remove all the old foodplant and droppings, replenish the food supply, and then replace the stem on which the larva is resting back into the cage.
Elephant Hawk larva pupate on the surface of the ground in a loose cocoon of dead leaves spun together. To prepare for this and to ensure that the larva and pupa have a good chance of survival, I take a couple of handfull of fresh leaves, put them on a baking tray and dry them off in an oven set at 100 degrees C for 20-30 minutes. This will effectively sterilise the leaves and at the same time remove the moisture present thus helping to prevent mould occurring.
When the larva is ready to pupate it will take on an oily appearance, when this happens, remove the larva from the cage, remove all the foodplant and clean out any droppings etc. Place the dried leaves into the cage and replace the larva. It may wander around for several hours before burrowing into the leaves and starting to spin a cocoon. Once this happens leave the cage alone for at least three weeks. This will enable the larva to complete the cocoon, pupate and give time for the pupa to harden. After three weeks it is then possible to remove the dried leaves one at a time until you have only the cocoon containing the pupa left.
Keep the growing larva and the pupa in a shaded and cool place, neither appreciate direct sunlight, an unheated garage or cellar is ideal.
It may well be that in the warm climate of Texas, that this species is double or even continuously brooded, Check the cage every day in the evening, and sooner or later you (hopefully) will be rewarded with an adult specimen. See attached photograph.
Rearing insect is a very rewarding experience, I hope you and your children are successful.
Please don't hesitate to ask further questions if you run into problems.
Regards,
Harry.
Attachments
harry eales said:
Thank you for your response. I have attached a picture of the larva for you to verify my identification. It is in the container with some gravel at the bottom. Is this going to harm it and should we remove the gravel from the container? (It was clean gravel.) How big does the larva usually get? Ours is about 2 1/2 " long. Also, after it makes its cacoon, how long will it take for it to come out?
I have never been one to care much for science class, but this is giving me a new perspective!
Thanks again!
Tracy
Attachments
mothman
Well-known member
Ours overwinter as pupae and emerge in May(maybe early June in colder regions)However It looks to me that your Elephant Hawk differs slightly in the larval form(ours does not have such pronounced eye spots on every segment but usually only on the 4th and 5th and the merest hint of eyes if at all on the rest,as well as other subtle differences and it may well be that its habbits are different as well, so keep an eye on it for a while in case it is a continual brooder in your area.
Colin.
Colin.
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
T Foster said:
Hello Tracy,
I'm not at all sure that it is an Elephant Hawkmoth larva that you have, It is very similar in appearance, but as Colin (mothman) says, our European form doesn't have nearly so many eyespots. It could be, that you have a closely related species.
I am a little perturbed at where and how you are keeping the larva. Outdoors it is likely to be predated on, not only by parasitic flies and wasps, but also mammals such as Racoons, Pack Rats, Mice etc. I would suggest that you remove the larva into a more secure environment. A plastic sandwich box some 3-4" deep with a tight fitting lid would do quite well, provided it is cleaned out and the food is replenished twice a day. At 2.5" long it will not be more than a week or two at the most before it is ready to pupate. I would also suggest you bring it indoors and keep it in a cool place away.
As I said in an earlier 'post' Elephant Hawkmoths pupate on the surface of the ground, but many other Hawkmoth species pupate underground. Since we are not absolutely sure of the species, it will pay to give the larva the option of pupating on the surface or underground. To do this, obtain a cardboard shoebox or similar box, half fill the box with some sterilised 'Potting Compost' obtained from your local garden centre or horticultural supplier and place a thin layer of dried leaves on top of the compost. Once the larva takes on an oily appearance and stops feeding, place it in this box, put the lid on and weight it down with an old book or some magazines (a fully fed larva is quite strong and could easily lift the lid of the box). Leave it for at least two weeks before opening the box and examining the contents.
Gently remove the dried leaves one by one, if any slight resistance is met with, leave such leaves alone, they will be forming part of a cocoon. If you can remove all the leaves, then the larva has pupated under the soil. In either case, discard the lid of the box and cover the top of the box with some netting material, held in place with a large elastic band. This will enable you to see into the box and also provide something for the emerging moth to grip onto. Emergence of the adult moth may take several weeks or even several months. Just check on it every day, sooner or later you should be rewarded with an adult moth. Please let us know how you get on.
Harry
Good Morning Harry,
Thanks again for the info. You have however somehow misunderstood where we are keeping this larva. It is in a plastic container that has been cleaned out (it once housed a hermit crab) and is sitting on a counter in our home. For some reason, my child really thought it needed to have the rocks at the bottom of the container. I did not know if that could harm it, that was my question. However, after reading your response, I will have her change it out with potting soil.
Is it your opinion that it will eventually turn into some kind of moth?
Again, thanks to all you who have given us information. It is greatly appreciated.
Thanks again for the info. You have however somehow misunderstood where we are keeping this larva. It is in a plastic container that has been cleaned out (it once housed a hermit crab) and is sitting on a counter in our home. For some reason, my child really thought it needed to have the rocks at the bottom of the container. I did not know if that could harm it, that was my question. However, after reading your response, I will have her change it out with potting soil.
Is it your opinion that it will eventually turn into some kind of moth?
Again, thanks to all you who have given us information. It is greatly appreciated.
Well, things appear to be happening quicker than we expected. When I attempted to change out the food source this morning, the leaves seemed stuck. I took a closer look and saw that there are several white strands connecting the leaves together. I am assuming this is the begining of the pulpate phase. The leaves are not dried out much since I had just placed them in there yesterday evening. Will this be a problem? Also, when looking at the bottom of the container, I see that the larva is mostly on the plastic bottom, not leaves. Will it still be able to spin its cocoon well enough?
This is really exciting! Wish us luck!
This is really exciting! Wish us luck!
mothman
Well-known member
HI Tracey and family.T Foster said:
Im sure Harry will be along shortly and I hope I am not treading on his toes by answering some of these points.
First of all do not disturb anything now for about 2 weeks as any disturbance at this stage could result in a dead pupae or crippled adult.When the pupae is properly formed I always make a tube of Kitchen paper folded and stapled at one end loose enough for the pupae to slip into tail end(the sharp end) first,then pop your pupae into a clean dry sandwich(tupperware type) box and place it in an unheated outside building dont worry about air holes as pupae use very little oxygen.visually check regularly and when the pupae goes dark and oily in appearence lay it out under some damp moss (a little moisture is vital at this time) and place some canes securely to allow the adult to climb up and dry.
Your finished insect will definately be a Hawkmoth(Sphingidae) of some kind(If it is not Parasitised), and almost certainly from the sub family: Macroglossinae,and may even be the Elephant Hawk that we originally suspected,however my own experience is limited to European moths and North american ones are a bit of a learning curve for me.
What ever Hawkmoth yours turns out to be you will certainly not be dissapointed as these moths are never less than spectacular.
Please keep us posted !
Colin. Ps If you want to do an Internet search I believe that Hawkmoths are also known as Sphinx moths in the US.
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mothman
Well-known member
IVE FOUND IT!! It is called Xylophanes tersa tersa.(rather unromantic dont you think) Find it at http://www.silkmoths.bizland.com/xterster.htm
Colin.
Colin.
harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
T Foster said:
Hello Tracy,
It would appear that your moth is pupating, once it starts to spin leaves together. I would recommend that you leave the top off the container to allow the leaves remaining in the breeding cage to dry out naturally.
Once it starts spinning a cocoon, it will not move from that area or attempt to move at all. As Colin (Mothman) said, do not disturb it at all now for a week or two as this could be injurious to the insect. I also agree with his identification, having looked at the URL he supplied, Now just a case of waiting until it emerges which may take several weeks or months. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. lol. Hoping that it wasn't parasitised before you found it.
My best wishes and good luck to you and your children, hopefully they will be impressed when the moth emerges.
Harry
mothman
Well-known member
Hello Harry.
I hope you didnt mind me chipping in on that one,I thought that it was urgent just in case Tracey disturbed Pupation.
It is interesting to note that her species of moth larvae also has a green colour variant, as does the other Elephant hawk Caterpillar lookalike The Silver striped hawk.
Colin.
I hope you didnt mind me chipping in on that one,I thought that it was urgent just in case Tracey disturbed Pupation.
It is interesting to note that her species of moth larvae also has a green colour variant, as does the other Elephant hawk Caterpillar lookalike The Silver striped hawk.
Colin.
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harry eales
Ancient Entomologist
mothman said:
Hello Colin,
No problem, dive in any time. It's surprising how many Hawkmoth larva worldwide have the first few segments of their body 'retractable' into the larger body segments making the eye spot swell and the larval body bulk up as in the Elephant Hawk.
I see from Bill Oehlke's website that Xylophanes tersa tersa is almost continually brooded in tropical and semi tropical areas, so Tracey may not have too long to wait before her moth emerges.
The last of my Elephant Hawk larve have started to 'spin up' and some of those that did so earlier in the month, have pupated. In a couple of weeks I will know just how many of the original 24 larva have successfully made it through to the pupal stage.
Harry
hi everybody
we have found three elephant hawk moth caterpillars in a patch of weeds in our garden in Plymouth, Devon. we are certain of the caterpillar type.
we would like to 'keep' them for our three year old to observe, but are not sure at all how to proceed. we've read the advice above but are still a bit confused. how big a home do we need for them? should we keep them all or put some back? when they are wandering around they are all three brown and approx 10cm each. they are very fast. we have them in a pretty small tub, its probably about length8xwidth3xheight6 inches and it is plastic. please could you point us in the direction of some simple advice on how to keep them properly because we've never done this before and are a bit lost!
thanks very much
v r k j
we have found three elephant hawk moth caterpillars in a patch of weeds in our garden in Plymouth, Devon. we are certain of the caterpillar type.
we would like to 'keep' them for our three year old to observe, but are not sure at all how to proceed. we've read the advice above but are still a bit confused. how big a home do we need for them? should we keep them all or put some back? when they are wandering around they are all three brown and approx 10cm each. they are very fast. we have them in a pretty small tub, its probably about length8xwidth3xheight6 inches and it is plastic. please could you point us in the direction of some simple advice on how to keep them properly because we've never done this before and are a bit lost!
thanks very much
v r k j
mothman
Well-known member
I find that a small cheap plastic fishtank is quite a handy thing at moments like these,failing this try to find the bigest plastic container you can around 6ins by 12, but the actual dimensions are not too crucial, as long as it is no less than 3-4 ins deep,place some potting compost about an inch or so deep and just throw the foodplant in twice a day making sure you remove the old wilted stuff and frass(droppings).
Your caterpillars are almost certainly adult,and will be pupating very soon,they will become greasy looking and wander around restlessly,at this stage follow Harrys advice above (submission #29)and, remember once they dissapear don't disturb them for a couple of weeks.
After this you can either follow Harrys suggestion above of leaving them in situ if you are a bit squeamish about handling them,or my advice (see subm #33)and move them to smaller quarters,I usually do this because I like to sex my livestock and then seperate males and females but this is not crucial for you so either way is good.
In the case of the Elephant hawk you should be expecting a happy event in May or early June..Best of luck and keep us posted.
Colin.
Your caterpillars are almost certainly adult,and will be pupating very soon,they will become greasy looking and wander around restlessly,at this stage follow Harrys advice above (submission #29)and, remember once they dissapear don't disturb them for a couple of weeks.
After this you can either follow Harrys suggestion above of leaving them in situ if you are a bit squeamish about handling them,or my advice (see subm #33)and move them to smaller quarters,I usually do this because I like to sex my livestock and then seperate males and females but this is not crucial for you so either way is good.
In the case of the Elephant hawk you should be expecting a happy event in May or early June..Best of luck and keep us posted.
Colin.
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