• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Lion slaughtered by "hunter" (1 Viewer)

Peter C. said:
Some interesting numbers, here in the Globe & Mail story on this.

One the key ones is 0.04% - that's how much of South Africa's GDP comes from big game hunting. So, while some land-holders and service industries would inevitably suffer from an absolute cessation of trophy hunting, I suspect the country overall can manage quite well (well, no worse than now) without it.

Another is 0.06% - that's the contribution to GDP, on average, of the 11 African countries in which most big game hunting takes place. I think they can probably cope without that, too.
Click to expand...

As Jos was intimating can one survive without the other? If the landowners turn their land over to crops they won't want Elephants on their land...
 
Peter C. said:
Some interesting numbers, here in the Globe & Mail story on this.

One the key ones is 0.04% - that's how much of South Africa's GDP comes from big game hunting. So, while some land-holders and service industries would inevitably suffer from an absolute cessation of trophy hunting, I suspect the country overall can manage quite well (well, no worse than now) without it.

Another is 0.06% - that's the contribution to GDP, on average, of the 11 African countries in which most big game hunting takes place. I think they can probably cope without that, too.
Click to expand...


I am quite sure the countries can survive without incomes from hunting, but my point was these areas of land would simply not be as rich in wildlife as they are if the landowners had not made the conscious decisions to create well-stocked, well-managed areas to generate income from hunting safaris.

When I lived in Zimbabwe (I have no idea what the situation is now), much of the Zambezi Valley was wildlife-rich protected wildlife habitat, pockets of it as no-hunting private reserves, parts of it as state-protected reserves such as Mana Pools, and parts of it as hunting reserves. It is unrealistic to believe that many of the countries in the region have the funds to compensate to take the hunting reserves out of private hands ...or, if they simply took them without compensation, in many cases they would not have resources to manage them as effectively - in a well-run hunting reserve, poaching is controlled and hunting is managed to not over exploit.

So yes, the countries would survive and the economies would not see any major dents, but it is fairly safe to say, wildlife would not benefit.

I don't like the hunting either and also think there is fundamentally a screw loose in someone that gets a kick out of driving up to a animal and shooting it point blank in the warped belief it is sport or fun, but at a basic conservation level, I would be very wary of a campaign to ban the practice across the region.
 
I hate it when cold, hard facts get in the way of my ranting. It's difficult to propose any measures that deprive those born in less fortunate circumstances than me of an income. Presumably it is better if those blood thirsty Victorian throwbacks take animals from a managed population rather than elsewhere. The idea of sacrificing any animal in order to stroke someone's ego sickens me but unless an alternative source of income can be found whilst maintaining valuable wildlife habitat then what can we do? It may be better to concentrate on the hunters themselves, let them know how much their actions anger and sicken us, boycott their businesses and stop them from bringing their trophies home.

James.
 
Jos Stratford said:
I don't like the hunting either and also think there is fundamentally a screw loose in someone that gets a kick out of driving up to a animal and shooting it point blank in the warped belief it is sport or fun, but at a basic conservation level, I would be very wary of a campaign to ban the practice across the region.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with all the above. The best place to see Aardvark, Aardwolf, Black-footed Cat and many other smaller mammals in South Africa is a game farm that makes some of its income from game hunting. The area was overgrazed semi-desert before the landscape was restored by reintroducing native antelope and getting rid of the cattle. The Aardvarks etc. would not live there if it were not for the game hunting.

All that said, there is something seriously wrong with people that kill purely for sport. Poaching a Lion for sport (i.e. luring it out of a national park) and then failing to kill it humanely is unforgivable.
 
Sorry-it was Oxford University which is running the conservation and anti - poaching scheme.
I will try and find out more.
Instead of just blathering on about it, do something positive and contribute to the scheme.
A spokesman from the university was on the radio this morning.
A few weeks ago they were thinking the scheme would have to close down due to lack of funds but now they have so much money they can keep it going this year and hopefully beyond.
A positive out of a negative.
 
Hunting is like removing elements from a TV set - transistors, diodes, dimmers, processors and counting that such TV will work still. The Earth is this TV set. And under such circumstances economy is not important at all. Since this is about our life, not only killed beatiful animals.
 
There are a few things that stand out as totally unacceptable in a civilised society and amongst abuse of the weak, young and old by those with power and money, are those that think that they should be accepted for killing wildlife as a means of personal gratification. Countries must stand up and make it clear that trophy hunting is as abhorrent as peodophillia and rape.
Being able to spend huge sums on hunting when a donation to the local school should be enough to give dentist Palmer the buzz he's looking for.
Trophy hunting aids conservation? Maybe in certain situations but generally speaking, a myth and a con promoted from the industry for sad humans.
 
string boozel said:
I hate it when cold, hard facts get in the way of my ranting. It's difficult to propose any measures that deprive those born in less fortunate circumstances than me of an income. Presumably it is better if those blood thirsty Victorian throwbacks take animals from a managed population rather than elsewhere. The idea of sacrificing any animal in order to stroke someone's ego sickens me but unless an alternative source of income can be found whilst maintaining valuable wildlife habitat then what can we do? It may be better to concentrate on the hunters themselves, let them know how much their actions anger and sicken us, boycott their businesses and stop them from bringing their trophies home.

James.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, I get so angry and frustrated that I can't see straight, we live in a bloody awful world.
 
pratincol said:
As if you thought it couldn't get worse the headline on the Daily Mail website staes that Cecil's brother has now possibly been killed!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...richo-shot-dead-poachers-Zimbabwean-park.html

Have a look at the Oxford University link if you wish to contribute to their conservation efforts
http://www.everydayhero.co.uk/event/...Cecil-the-lion

Fully understand your anger and frustration Keith.It is shared by many others around the world.
Click to expand...


They are now retracting that statement.
 
A telemetric collar sometimes can be deadly for collared cat, at least small one, like Lynx, it also potentially allows hunters or poachers to track collared animals.
 
Trophy hunting can be a pretty important tool for conservation. It encourages private individuals to breed endangered species and improve and manage local environments. Without cash from those enterprises, it's unlikely they would exist. Quite a few hoofed mammals, ranging from various South African species to Scimitar-horned Oryx, would not be around today without trophy hunting.

That said, this is poaching, and is contributing nothing.
 
If you believe that you must still put your tooth under the pillow and hang up a stocking at Christmas. Ask yourself WHY was the Scimitar-horned Oryx endangered in the first place? Did they simply run out of food or habitat? No. They were shot for trophies.
Conservation is often used as an argument for trophy hunting "Jee whizz, our dollars saved that animal." when the answer is no, it did not! Conservationists saved the animal, not trophy hunters who only want to save it so they can kill it. (Much akin to saving street kids for nefarious purposes.)
Oryx and many other animals won't die out just because they are no longer shot to satisfy some wa*ker's blood lust. Indeed, by definition they will actually increase in number by procreation by the very 'trophy males' that have been allowed to live out their natural lives.
 
Mysticete said:
Trophy hunting can be a pretty important tool for conservation. It encourages private individuals to breed endangered species and improve and manage local environments. Without cash from those enterprises, it's unlikely they would exist. Quite a few hoofed mammals, ranging from various South African species to Scimitar-horned Oryx, would not be around today without trophy hunting.

That said, this is poaching, and is contributing nothing.
Click to expand...

Well said; thank goodness for an educated and balanced voice on this matter. This forum deserves as much.

It is currently a reality that to preserve numerous habitats and the 'noteworthy' species that live in them, legal hunting is often an important part of conservation.

I have spent too many years as an environmental scientist to get sentimental over Cecil the Lion or Gary the Goat etc... Although it is sad to see the illegal killing of a significant Eco-tourism attraction for Zimbabwe and quite frankly a beautiful looking animal.

I shoot only with a camera and I don't really understand the attraction of shooting animals with a gun, be it a grouse or a Lion. Interestingly, most of the moorland that supports red grouse in the UK was artificially created and maintained for grouse shooting.
 
I agree that a trophy hanging on the wall or lying on the floor under the bed is perfectly conserved and preserved. Moreover such specimen serves to nature preservation after extinction of given species as a scientific specimen and as an example of what we must not to do.
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 8 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

Taphrospilus
Caprimulgus donaldsoni Sharpe, 1895 and others
Replies
7
Views
547
Björn Bergenholtz
Björn Bergenholtz
S
Africa’s Birds of Prey Are in Decline, a New Study Finds
Replies
4
Views
633
Andrew Whitehouse
Andrew Whitehouse
George Edwards
Vanuatu megapode
Replies
6
Views
1K
sicklebill
sicklebill
R
Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names
16 17 18
Replies
353
Views
25K
awiner
awiner
hopster
Focus to infinity for short-sighted users
Replies
7
Views
782
eronald
E

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top