Bins...B&S series 5/Endeavor II/Monarch 7 (1 Viewer)

I've found the focus speed of the Vanguard Endeavor EDII 10x42 to be an advantage, it contributes to my enjoyment of using this binocular. Quick and precise, it gives you precision in focusing and quickly. The flat field helps immeasurably and the view snaps into focus just nicely. The hand position that works the best for me is to have all fingers of both hands forward of the rear bridge and fine tune focus with the tip of an index finger.

It has been interesting following the progress of Vanguard over the last few years. High QC is clearly paying off.

One of the very few binocular manufacturers to operate without any subcontracting, Zeiss included, and definately one to watch.

Best wishes,

David

I've yet to try the new Explorer but it sounds interesting.

I can only go by what I saw on the day. I didn't do any resolution testing. That's not really my thing. I go by enjoyment in the field. I couldn't see any difference between the Disco and the Vanguard. Believe me, I tried. Perhaps the Disco is better suited to me. I do agree with you that the Vanguard has better control of CA, but I'm not particularly susceptible to that.

With those somewhat cheaper Opticrons in my mind, I'm wondering how I'd like the Vortex Diamondback and Hawke Endurance PC...or won't they be satisfying anymore after the Endeavor, Talon and BushnelL? Can't wait til my next trip Saturday but also bit tempted to just order the Vanguard...

I'd agree with Samandag that the fast focus - once you get used to it - can be a distinct advantage. Getting used to it is the key point here though. I regularly change between the almost intuitive focus of a Zeiss FL 8x32 and the Vanguard EDII8x42, and need a period of adjustment (about 10 mins max).
The EDII is a much better choice than the EDI, which i previously owned. It lacked the Hoya glass and produced more CA than the EDII, which has to be induced to produce much at all. Vanguard seem to have really cracked the balance between flat field and depth, i think.
If they are planning an EDIII, with perhaps a slightly extended FoV and a slight slow up on the focus (but only slight) i might be first in the queue for that too!

Waddaya guys say? Aim for the highest possible in my budget (up to €400) or try some €250-300 options as well? I could try the Minox BF, Vortex Diamondback and Endurance in one store, with the Bushnell L and maybe Talon (which I now settled on not buying because of the size and despite the good feel). And will surely try Opticron Discovery and new Explorer in one store. Point is: visit the first store (Minox/Diamondb/Endurance) and I won't make it Saturday to the store with the Hawke Frontiers (which I prolly won't buy on the 'too large' argument) and B&S Series 5 (which I'm getting less curious about)....Still doubting about my plans for Saturday. Want to make it my last trip before deciding.

I can sense your anxiety about this, Ries! There are some things not considered in this thread yet though.
Firstly, you have mentioned weight a couple of times, and your searches have all been for 8x and 10x42. We don't know what kind of birding you do as a rule either. While not wanting to confuse things further, if you walk a lot with your bins, you may like to consider an 8x32 configuration. A good, bright 8x32 will take you right up to dusk, with an 8x42 only offering an advantage in the last light - and then only if its glass is equally bright.
What i would advise - whichever shop you go to - is try to test the binoculars outside. Many a fault has only been found 'in the field' - not under the fluorescent lights of the retail outlet.
Also - the reason there are so many makes of binoculars is that there is a huge range of people. All kind of things can make a binocular right for you, whether it's the width of your eyes, the size of your hands, the speed of the focus, the weight, the eye relief etc etc.
If you get a chance, try the bins on 'real things' at a range of distances, and see how intuitive they are; getting onto birds quickly, wherever they may be, is perhaps as important (if not more) than its optical performance on the test bench.
Everyone can tell you about their favourite in your price range (including me!) but what suits you best in the light, the environment and the context will be your choice!

I don't recommend the Vortex Diamondback, I ordered a pair online and the focusing wheel had way too much slop....Like half an inch of play! I sent them back and went to a brick and mortar store and purchased a pair of Vipers in 8x42. You do get what you pay for!! lol
Charlie

Ries said:

Waddaya guys say? Aim for the highest possible in my budget (up to €400) or try some €250-300 options as well? I could try the Minox BF, Vortex Diamondback and Endurance in one store, with the Bushnell L and maybe Talon (which I now settled on not buying because of the size and despite the good feel). And will surely try Opticron Discovery and new Explorer in one store. Point is: visit the first store (Minox/Diamondb/Endurance) and I won't make it Saturday to the store with the Hawke Frontiers (which I prolly won't buy on the 'too large' argument) and B&S Series 5 (which I'm getting less curious about)....Still doubting about my plans for Saturday. Want to make it my last trip before deciding.

Click to expand...

The BF, Diamondback and Endurance are pretty reasonable binoculars for the price but I'd put them a step below some of the other binoculars you've mentioned. I've not managed to directly compare the Vortex Talon and the Hawke Frontier ED but they are very similar indeed though I suspect there may be small differences in the specification of the coatings.

I hope that helps simplify your schedule.

David

Thanks for your help, guys! (and maybe gals haha)

@ Paddy: I certainly test them all outside and try them on long and short distance, trying every aspect of the bins in all ways I can come up with Especially a metal object against the sky at some distance proved to be of big help for testing sharpness.
As for ratios; I choose 10x42 because of the style of birding I most often find myself doing: on quite longer distances on large areas (like our Waddenzee). So I need (and like) a good FoV but an 8x (which I'm using now) proved to be júst not enough magnification (compared it with a friend's 10x in the field a number of times). I'm no person to drive (don't have a car, nor license) to a point and sit there all day waiting, not more than an hour of two. I bird quite actively, have a foldable bicycle I take with me on train, cycle and walk long stretches through nature to get to the quieter places where birds fly freely therefor compactness and weight is a factor: but I already discovered that weight can be quite an advantage to keep a 10x steady comfortably. The Talons got that but they are uncomfortably large for my compact way of getting around... Where they smaller, I'd probably already bought them; nice optical and build quality, liked the looks as well. That's not important for optical quality of course, but when I start out with bins I think ugly (like the Legend Ultra HD) they'll never grow on me and it'll become a factor of irritation. I know myself that much haha.

Sometimes/often when viewing on greater distances, I miss a scope, but I'm not there yet..I mean; I can't be so sure right now I keep birding for years to make the high cost pay off (and often don't have the funds for it) but now need the motivation of a good set of bins to grow to that point. Transportation is another factor in that: to cycle 20km on my tiny bike needs something compact (I saw a nice compact Vortex 20-60x80 last Saturday, think it was a Diamondback scope?).
That said: I like birding in the woods as well, them darned tiny hyperactive birds give me quite a frustrating challenge, positively speaking

@ squamish: doesn't sound good! Thanks for the warning and yes: often you get what you pay for (although the thousands often seem overpriced to me)

@ David: I already decided to go for the best in my budget (max €400). So I won't go the store with those three, although I could compare the BushnelL and Talon again there...my fondness of the Talon keeps peeping through, notice? Gets me doubting if I shouldn't learn to live with its size. Right now I'm a bit avoiding them because my mind says to not go there because the size will get in the way. But they were such a relieve (in view and build) after the other ones...darned.

I'll go check out the Opticron Discovery and new Explorer, to give them a chance.
I'll go to a store where they have loooooads of bins (no Talon haha) incl Vanguard and Opticron, and good service to see what happens. Maybe they have the Discovery and Explorer, to make my schedule easier.

And still there's somehow that fascination with the B&S series 5...maybe because there's no reviews on it, the specs on paper are good and I like the looks. I think I will go check them out (have to make an appointment for it), next to the Frontiers MK1 and MK2. I read the MK1 is a tiny bit lower in quality than the new one, but price is good at €340. Frontier's a bit too large, as the Talon, so not really serious competitors. B&S might be too light to hold steady...
I'm not sure yet how to make the schedule. Three stores on one day is max (travelling from the north tip of Holland throughout the country by train) and especially when making an appointment timing is a factor.
Edit: hmm, don't know if I'll go there. I doubt the B&S can offer competitive quality with the others. I mean: in that store with high prices €315 for a ED/phase coated set of bins (€250 online)...sounds too good to be true, and I have the suspision it can't/won't offer the quality I can get with my budget. The store/person needing me to make an appointment is nice personal service for sure, but gives me less freedom on the day itself.

I'll keep posting updates here. Nice soap opera huh, such a public shared quest haha. Maybe readers get something out of it. Quite a few mini-reviews from an amateur here already

You should also consider the Carson 3D serie with ED glass : less CA than EndeavorII, compact and cheap. For me, on par with the Sapphire ED top hinge (10x42) for sharpness and CA control. With A-mazon return policy, it's a good deal... :t:

Thanks for that tip, dadra I've considered the Carson 3D ED and your experience sounds promising! But I can only get them online from abroad, and not test them in a store here. Right now I prefer to not do a blind buy but try before I buy.

(When i was looking for a decent 10x42 at low price i tried the A-amzon "try and return" policy for the Monarch vs Frontier ED. I finally bought the Frontier ED with a totaly refund from A-mazon for the Monarch that I returned... o ! )

Ries,
Gezien je bewegingspatroon voor vogelobservatie zou een 10x32 waarschijnlijk een zeer goede keus zijn: compact en licht. Er zijn merken, die een zeer slechte service reputatie hebben, het is goed om dat te overleggen met een deskundig winkelpersoon. Ik heb Barr & Stroud onlangs bekeken en alleen de 8x56 kon mij bekoren, de rest vond ik onder de maat voor de prijs. Bekijk ook eens gebruikte kijkers in je prijsklasse, HOO heeft er zeker diverse. Nog een advies: maak aantekeningen van elke kijker, die je onderzoekt (ter plekke dus) want het visueel geheugen werkt over het algemeen slecht en bovendien loop je het risisco van te snelle emotionele hechting en die kun je gedeeltelijk ondervangen door vergelijken van nauwkeurige aantekeningen. Het plan om drie winkels op een dag te doen lijkt mij zeer onverstandig. Kies een zeer goede uit en denk dan nog eens na of je nog een andere wilt bezoeken.
Succes

Dank je voor je tips, Gijs! Het heeft ook door m'n hoofd gespookt om aantekeningen te maken, alleen weet ik dat ik daar niet standvastig in zou zijn (en ik heb een gruwelijk krabbelhandschrift) dus heb dat plan laten varen. Met mentale aantekeningen en thuis uitgewerkte vergelijkingen moet ik het doen
Ik ga zaterdag zeker bij HOO langs, ook inderdaad benieuwd wat ze aan 2ehandsen hebben Ondertussen begint m'n 3-winkelplan ook te slinken: hoogstwaarschijnlijk wordt het enkel Fransen voor de Opticron Explorer en dan HOO. Bushnell L hebben ze daar ook, en goedkopere die ik in Beilen wou testen laat ik liggen evenals de B&S/Hawke dealer. Kan ik ook iets langer in bed liggen zaterdag haha.

Over 10x32...ik heb me vooral op 42 gericht (eerst zelfs nog 50 in m'n hoofd) omdat die me qua lichtopbrengst voordeliger leek. Qua grootte en gewicht is een 10x42 heel best te doen, alleen de 17cm Frontier/Talon-achtigen vallen voor mij af. Bv. Endeavors of de Bushnells zijn op dat vlak heel best te doen voor mij.

btw: better to keep it in English for the rest? Will translate this later, gotta eat.

translation:
Thank you for your tips, Gijs! I have also thought of taking notes, but I know that I would not be steadfast in there (and I have a horrible scribble handwriting) so I abandoned that plan. I have to do with mental notes and comparing them at home.
I will definitely visit HOO Saturday, indeed wondering what secondhand they'll have Meanwhile, my three-store plan begins to dwindle: probably it is just Frans for the Opticron Explorer and then HOO. Bushnell L is also in stock there. I'm skipping the cheaper ones I wanted to test in Beilen as well as the B & S / Hawke dealer. Can I stay in bed a bit longer that morning haha.

About 10x32 ... I've mainly focused on 42 (thought even of 50 at first) because it seemed advantageous to me in terms of clarity. In size and weight I find a 10x42 good to handle, only the Frontier 17cm / Talon-like won't do it for me. For example Endeavors or the Bushnell are fine for me.

Ries,
If you know from yourself, that making checklists is not your strong point you can discipline yourself before you visit a store by making a sort of table with checkpoints and cross at each binocular you are investigating how you judge that particular binocular on that point. That way you get a pretty good idea how you can make up your mind and you may be able to circumvent the risk of a too early emotional attachment to a binocular, whereas it may disappoint you when you are home with an empty wallet.
Gijs

Thank you, Gijs!

Well, I have to see how tomorrow goes: there's a black-winged kite that still seems to stay put, so I need got here first thing early in the morning It depends on how much time I spend there how I'll organise the rest of the day. I want to take enough time visiting House of Outdoor (curious 'bout their little optics museum and other sold goods as well) so might do that next weekend and visit one or two stores which will take less time. I'll be in the train at 6 am already so should be able to get some bins hunting done besides the bird. Almost a good thing the White-throated Dipper, that was being spotted, seems to be gone or I would've had to go there as well. Wishlist-birds

Hi Ries. I understand your disappointment/confusion with the Vanguard. I received a pair of 10x42 today and these are not of the same quality as the pair I have tried in a shop. The ones in the shop had no or nearly no CA no matter what I looked at but the ones I bought on the Internet has much more CA.
Good luck finding the best binoculars for you.

Hey tommy, you tried fiddling with the eye co figuration? The right amount of pupikar distance and how far I turned out the eyecups gave me the right ca-less view, as David suggested. Bit delivate stuff and therefor maybe no fun but now you already have it worth to take thw effort, I guess?

Hi Ries. Yes have tried to adjust the eye cups but that didn't help. I can't get the CA to get lesser. But I'll try to change them for another pair because I really like the sharpness brightness and how they fell in my hands.
Good luck with the trip today and the black-winged kite as well.;-)