Advice on scope requested (1 Viewer)

mattpau · Oct 29, 2004

I've been using a good old Bushnell Spacemaster scope for many, many years. Actually I'm on my third, the first two having been stolen at some point. I now feel ready for an upgrade and would be grateful for any advice.

I'm not particualrly big or strong, so feel that the new scope should be in the 60-65 mm range, rather than 80mm.

I've been looking at the Nikon Fieldscope III 60 mm with ED glass, available for US $729 from Eagle Optics. In one of the threads here at BF people mentioned the Zeiss 65mm, which is $919 at Eagle Optics - somewhat more expensive but still relatively affordable. I was wondering what people felt about these two models and how they compare. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bill A · Oct 29, 2004

I have the Zeiss 65mm Diascope with zoom 15x45 eyepiece and am very happy with it. The scope has excellent optics, and is quite a handy size. I recommend it.

Bill

Kevin Mac · Oct 29, 2004

I used my good old spacemaster for over 12 years. It survived falls and did it's job well. I also cursed the quality of view after using my Zeiss bins all day. So I'm thrilled with my new Swarovski scope. But now I'm terrified to leave it unguarded in the car for more than 7 seconds. It has to go everywhere with me, even into restraunts or washrooms. To answer your question though, I'd go for the Zeiss.

Anthony Martin · Oct 29, 2004

mattpau said:
I've been using a good old Bushnell Spacemaster scope for many, many years. Actually I'm on my third, the first two having been stolen at some point. I now feel ready for an upgrade and would be grateful for any advice.

I'm not particualrly big or strong, so feel that the new scope should be in the 60-65 mm range, rather than 80mm.

I've been looking at the Nikon Fieldscope III 60 mm with ED glass, available for US $729 from Eagle Optics. In one of the threads here at BF people mentioned the Zeiss 65mm, which is $919 at Eagle Optics - somewhat more expensive but still relatively affordable. I was wondering what people felt about these two models and how they compare. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Paul.
In my opinion there is very little to chose between the two scopes you mention but the advise I would give you when chosing between any number of scopes is not to pay too much attention to people's opinions. You must if at all possible test them side by side and I will guarantee that your subjective opinion will differ from mine or anyone elses.

Tony.

pduxon · Oct 29, 2004

Anthony Martin said:
Paul.
In my opinion there is very little to chose between the two scopes you mention but the advise I would give you when chosing between any number of scopes is not to pay too much attention to people's opinions. You must if at all possible test them side by side and I will guarantee that your subjective opinion will differ from mine or anyone elses.

Tony.

Paul and that is the best advice you'll get!!

scampo · Oct 29, 2004

mattpau said:
I've been using a good old Bushnell Spacemaster scope for many, many years. Actually I'm on my third, the first two having been stolen at some point. I now feel ready for an upgrade and would be grateful for any advice.

I'm not particualrly big or strong, so feel that the new scope should be in the 60-65 mm range, rather than 80mm.

I've been looking at the Nikon Fieldscope III 60 mm with ED glass, available for US $729 from Eagle Optics. In one of the threads here at BF people mentioned the Zeiss 65mm, which is $919 at Eagle Optics - somewhat more expensive but still relatively affordable. I was wondering what people felt about these two models and how they compare. Thanks in advance for any advice.

The Nikon with a 30x eyepiece is a superb scope in every way. The Zeiss with a zoom is similarly good. Both are top quality lightweight robust scopes that will see you through years of exceptional birding.

Balego · Oct 30, 2004

Unless Paul travels down to Pt. Pelee, to Pelee Wings, he wont be able to test any side by side. He will be lucky to be able to test any at all, in this city. Been there, done that.. no luck. Having faced the same situation recently with nowhere to try out scopes, as no stores carry them outside of one store which has little in stock to offer, I had to research the posts here in BF, read the reviews, and choose the best scope I could get for my budget. I got the Nikon Fieldscope78ED with 25-75xzoom and I'm thrilled with it, however there was nothing else to compare it to that I could see in person unless I travelled down to Pelee. Thats about an 8hr drive, so make it a weekend with hotel and food, there goes a big chunk out of the scope budget.
lots of info here in the forums, Paul. Living where we do, you'll not be able to compare them in person unless you know other birders here that have the various scopes you can look through.
Bev..( I know... I'm not much help, eh?

mattpau · Oct 30, 2004

Thank you to all who posted their advice. As Bev said (she just beat me to the punch), I'm not aware of any store here that carries EITHER model, let alone both for direct comparison. And my impression is that if you order a scope specially from a store here, you're expected to buy it.

In a way I'm not TOO bothered about the optics - I'm betting they're pretty awesome in both cases, and definitely superior to what I'm used to. Not that I want to knock the Spacemaster - I think it's a pretty fair little scope for the money (and I used variants of this model for over 25 years).

I guess I'm particularly interested in non-optical drawbacks or idiosyncracies with the 2 models of scope I mentioned. I notice that both have focussing systems that are very different to what I'm used to (and that are very different one from the other). I'm not getting any younger and am becoming annoyingly set in my ways so I'm hoping I can get used to a new system quickly. I'm glad to see that no one has mentioned any specific non-optical drawbacks to either of these models.

What about an eyepiece? Zoom or not? What power? Do people have feelings on this? Or is it again a very subjective matter?

PS Bev - glad you're thrilled with your scope. I feel like a bit of a wimp but I think I'll still go with a smaller scope rather than a big one.

Balego · Oct 30, 2004

Hi Paul
I had a chance to use a 38XW eyepiece and it was wonderful. I was a little nervous that I wouldnt like the 25-75zoom as much, but as it turns out I see little if any difference, but I use it for digiscoping and quite often the birds were too close to fit in the lens with the 38x. The zoom allows me to zoom out and I find its more versatile for my purposes. I can see clearly all the way up to top magnification, providing there is no atmospheric stuff in the way. Clear days? I'm amazed at what I can see through this scope! Heck, even on days like Oct18th, when it was dark and rainy, I spotted two surf scoters looking from Ottawa Beach to Deschenes on the Quebec side. The brightness of this scope is impressive!The scope and tripod IS heavy, but I'm not the one carrying it. Hubby has now labelled himself as 'my donkey'.

I think i read that the new 82ED is compact, moreso than the 78? I dont remember how it compares in weight to the 60mm. maybe not too much difference?
I think most of my weight is the tripod..its a 055pro, and quite heavy.

IanF · Oct 30, 2004

I now have a Swarovski but used to have a a Kowa 660 and a Kowa 823.

When I was searching for a new scope I tried out quite a few and had a look through several others when out birding.

Out of the two you mention I'd go for the Zeiss no question at all, but that was the design and optics I preferred. The angled version as well.

Zeiss scopes have a very good build quality and a nice feel to them. In hindsight I prefer that design of focus control as well as you only need the lightest of touches to fine focus whereas the helical type focus as on the Nikon means you have to grasp the scope body.

Having said that I wouldn't rule out the Kowa 601 and 603.

scampo · Oct 30, 2004

Balego said:
Unless Paul travels down to Pt. Pelee, to Pelee Wings, he wont be able to test any side by side. He will be lucky to be able to test any at all, in this city. Been there, done that.. no luck. Having faced the same situation recently with nowhere to try out scopes, as no stores carry them outside of one store which has little in stock to offer, I had to research the posts here in BF, read the reviews, and choose the best scope I could get for my budget. I got the Nikon Fieldscope78ED with 25-75xzoom and I'm thrilled with it, however there was nothing else to compare it to that I could see in person unless I travelled down to Pelee. Thats about an 8hr drive, so make it a weekend with hotel and food, there goes a big chunk out of the scope budget.
lots of info here in the forums, Paul. Living where we do, you'll not be able to compare them in person unless you know other birders here that have the various scopes you can look through.
Bev..( I know... I'm not much help, eh?

I regularly am able to look through a Nikon, a Zeiss and a Swarovski side by side. I can say that you definitely chose well, Bev - and that you would have absolutely no reason to change to another make.

Bill Atwood · Oct 30, 2004

Sorry I'm not being any help here Paul, but in this category you may also want to consider the Pentax 65mm.

Anthony Martin · Oct 30, 2004

Balego said:
Unless Paul travels down to Pt. Pelee, to Pelee Wings, he wont be able to test any side by side. He will be lucky to be able to test any at all, in this city. Been there, done that.. no luck. Having faced the same situation recently with nowhere to try out scopes, as no stores carry them outside of one store which has little in stock to offer, I had to research the posts here in BF, read the reviews, and choose the best scope I could get for my budget. I got the Nikon Fieldscope78ED with 25-75xzoom and I'm thrilled with it, however there was nothing else to compare it to that I could see in person unless I travelled down to Pelee. Thats about an 8hr drive, so make it a weekend with hotel and food, there goes a big chunk out of the scope budget.
lots of info here in the forums, Paul. Living where we do, you'll not be able to compare them in person unless you know other birders here that have the various scopes you can look through.
Bev..( I know... I'm not much help, eh?

Point well taken Bev.

Tony

kabsetz · Oct 30, 2004

Couple quick comments: The Fieldscope ED 78 is about a pound heavier than the ED III or the Zeiss, but sizewise there is not much difference, since lengths are pretty similar and the bigger diameter of the ED 78 does not much influence its portability.

The ED 78 will give a significantly brighter image and significantly better resolution than any of the smaller scopes, no matter which magnification you use. However, to get full benefits, you'll want to to have a somewhat sturdier tripod with it, and this will add weight to the total system. All the smaller scopes you are discussing are decidedly rear-heavy on the tripod, while the ED 78 is decidedly front-heavy. The ED 78 is not guaranteed waterproof, but in practice it holds moisture outside very well. Since it is a discontinued model, the pricing seems very competitive right now. The ED 82 is, in fact, a little bigger and little heavier than the ED 78. The 78 lacks a pull-out sunshade, which is a problem in rain. I have never yet noticed the sunshade to make any difference to flare when viewing towards the sun, so I consider it to be a rainguard for the objective lense instead.

Kimmo

iporali · Nov 2, 2004

Balego said:
I had a chance to use a 38XW eyepiece and it was wonderful. I was a little nervous that I wouldnt like the 25-75zoom as much, but as it turns out I see little if any difference, but I use it for digiscoping and quite often the birds were too close to fit in the lens with the 38x. The zoom allows me to zoom out and I find its more versatile for my purposes. I can see clearly all the way up to top magnification, providing there is no atmospheric stuff in the way.

Bev,

With all respect - do you really get a wider view with the zoom? I read (http://nikon.topica.ne.jp/bi_e/products/nature_a.htm#3) that the zoom at 25x shows actually a narrower area than the 38xW (28m vs. 33m at 1000m) - and used this info not to recommend the zoom for someone who wanted a "wider" eyepiece. The image is smaller, but ... well, narrower - meaning that in digiscoping you just have to zoom the camera more. I completely agree with your opinions about versatility and excellent optical quality of the zoom.

Ilkka

Balego · Nov 2, 2004

Hi Ilkka
No, the view isnt wider, but it isnt disappointingly narrow. I was worried about it being so, but as it turned out I still get a nice large clear view. I guess thats it.. the view might be narrower somewhat, but still so good that I didnt miss the 38Xw.
For digiscoping however, I do find a difference, and its probably personal preference. I found in some cases with the 38X that the bird was too close for the lens. I'm talking 30 feet for a sparrow, or maybe 70 ft away in the case of a blue heron. I couldnt get the whole body of the sparrow in the lens, and same with the heron. Zooming the camera out for the heron gave me lots of vignetting. With the zoom on the scope I now can zoom out or in, fitting the birds nicely in the screen. I tend to use my camera zoom at a little less than full 4 optical zoom to avoid vignetting, but for me it is giving me better results that I can zoom my scope in or out. Those sparrows at 30 ft now fit in the screen with a little of the habitat showing with the scope zoomed fully out to the lowest. I take a lot of photos of the birds in my yard, and I know the 38X would just be too powerful for that. Out in the field its great though.. a wonderful clear bright view.
I took some photos of snow geese the other day that were seen very nicely in the scope, but too far for photos. I zoomed in my scope to almost the top- around 60-65x, just to try it (better to take a shot that might not work than no shot at all, right?) , and surprisingly enough, I got decent photos with the very high zoom. Certainly decent with a wee bit of sharpening in the pc.

iporali · Nov 2, 2004

Balego said:
Hi Ilkka
No, the view isnt wider, but it isnt disappointingly narrow. I was worried about it being so, but as it turned out I still get a nice large clear view. I guess thats it.. the view might be narrower somewhat, but still so good that I didnt miss the 38Xw.

OK - I think I know what you mean. If the zoom has a very good image especially at the lowest power, it can be very comfortable to use - even though the fov is relatively narrow. I have myself learnt this recently with my Swaro AT80HD & the zoom - with my previous Kowa, I preferred the wide-angled eyepiece. :t:

Ilkka

mattpau · Nov 8, 2004

Thanks again to those who contributed and apologies for waiting quite a while to respond.

A note to Bill Atwood (from Illinois): yes Bill I am increasingly considering the Pentax 65. It's relatively inexpensive and Better View Desired gave the 80 version a glowing review. Unfortunately I'm not sure that that means the 65 will necessarily be good too. There don't seem to be any independent reviews at all available for this model yet. Even in BF I see that Bill A from Michigan inquired about it in another thread and no one seemed to have much info. Guess Bill A went for the Zeiss in the end - glad you like it Bill A. To be honest I'm a little down on Pentax because I bought a pair of their moderately priced compact bins (Can$150) a couple of years ago and they were crap. Optically pretty good but the focussing mechanism is cheap and developed play very quickly and the eyecups quickly got either so stiff you can't get them out or so loose they won't stay locked. And ergonomically I don't like them either, as it turns out (bulky, no place for your thumbs).

What prompted me to consider a new scope was birding in Ecuador. My Spacemaster got wet and it took 24 hours to dry out - I want a waterproof scope. I also had the opportunity to use Leica and Swarovski scopes, either owned by the lodges I was visiting or other birders. I was blown away, especially by the Leica (perhaps because I tried it first?). But these scopes are expensive, to say the least.

Even though I probably won't be able to try out too many scopes here before buying I guess I should at least try zoom eyepieces versus fixed on other birders' scopes. That should give me an idea of which I like best. I will, however, start a new thread on zoom versus fixed eyepieces in case my question in this thread got buried and not too many people saw it.

Bill Atwood · Nov 9, 2004

I understand about foreign trip equipment problems, its what has me looking for full size bins. Sorry to hear about your Pentax.

Although the Pentax was a very good scope, (and the best for the money) I don't think it was as good as the accolades that BVD gave it.

I still believe the 65 is worth looking at if you can find one. They've just made it to the NA market in the last few months. And you don't really see a whole lot of Pentax around. The guy I sold mine to replaced a (work provided) TSN 4 and he is very pleased with it. The focus knob came loose, we sent it to Pentax in Denver and they returned it repaired within 3 weeks. I don't think there was a charge.

One thing I have noticed is that their eyepieces have changed abit. Also it looks like the 65mm has eyepieces different from the 80mm.

I'm getting antsy about looking at the new Zeiss and Nikon bins, I may make an optics run over the Thanksgiving holidays. If I do I'll try to take a look at the 65mm.

I managed to get to the Bass Pro shop near St. Louis a couple weekends ago, but the only "good" stuff they had was Swarovski.

mattpau · Nov 15, 2004

Bill Atwood said:
I understand about foreign trip equipment problems, its what has me looking for full size bins. Sorry to hear about your Pentax.

Although the Pentax was a very good scope, (and the best for the money) I don't think it was as good as the accolades that BVD gave it.

I still believe the 65 is worth looking at if you can find one. They've just made it to the NA market in the last few months. And you don't really see a whole lot of Pentax around. The guy I sold mine to replaced a (work provided) TSN 4 and he is very pleased with it. The focus knob came loose, we sent it to Pentax in Denver and they returned it repaired within 3 weeks. I don't think there was a charge.

One thing I have noticed is that their eyepieces have changed abit. Also it looks like the 65mm has eyepieces different from the 80mm.

I'm getting antsy about looking at the new Zeiss and Nikon bins, I may make an optics run over the Thanksgiving holidays. If I do I'll try to take a look at the 65mm.

I managed to get to the Bass Pro shop near St. Louis a couple weekends ago, but the only "good" stuff they had was Swarovski.

Hi Bill

Sorry for taking a while to reply. I have a bad habit of checking BF when I don't have time to reply. I look at New Posts of course. Then when I do have time to reply I do "New Posts" again but if there have been no further posts in a thread that I need to reply to I no longer see it and it may fall through the cracks! Still haven't worked out how to manage my threads better!

There certainly seem to be people in BF who feel the eyepiece is by far the most crucial part of the scope. So the 65 with different eyepieces may be quite different from the 80 with its eyepieces. Of course the 80 eyepieces are compatible with the 65 so one could go that route.

Anyway if you do get a chance to look through the Pentax 65 with its eyepiece(s) I'd be very interested to hear your impressions! It's currently out of stock at Eagle Optics but I was told they'd get more in soon.

Advice on scope requested (1 Viewer)

Well-known member

Well-known member

Just sleeping

Well-known member

Quacked up Member

Steve Campsall

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Moderator

Steve Campsall

Registered User

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Registered User

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread