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Sharpie or Cooper's Hawk, Arizona, USA (1 Viewer)

bobsofpa

Well-known member
The below photograph was taken 2 days ago at Sweetwater Wetlands, Tucson, Arizona, USA.

I think this is a Sharp-shinned Hawk because the head looks rounded to me and my impression (at a long distance) was that is was a small hawk. Today I met some one else who had photographed the same bird and thought it was a Cooper's (not a big surprise). So, it there a hawk "expert" out there that can resolve this.?
 

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This is a tough one. The head doesn't give a strong impression one way or the other, but we can't see the nape so don't really know if it truly has a "dark cap" only or not. The legs look kind of skinny but not super skinny. The tail feathers are very interesting - slightly different lengths but not very much. Based mostly on this my lean is to female Sharp-shinned. The tail feathers are a spot-on match for the depiction in Clark and Wheeler's "Hawks of North America" (2nd edition).
 
I have created a paler version of Bob´s bird and I guess that everyone can see what Accipiter we have...;)

JanJ
 

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Ok, sorry but I meant Cooper's on greyish cheeks broad pale-tipped tail feathers where the outer ones are shorter.

JanJ
 
I have a lot of respect for JanJ's opinions, but I think I'm still going to stick with my lean to Sharp-shinned on this interesting and tough ID. A Cooper's ought to have more difference in the length of the tail feathers, and as I mentioned, the differences in lengths on this bird are virtually identical to the differences depicted for female Sharpie in Wheeler and Clark's book.
 
? . .but I think I'm still going to stick with my lean to Sharp-shinned on this interesting and tough ID. A Cooper's ought to have more difference in the length of the tail feathers, and as I mentioned, the differences in lengths on this bird are virtually identical to the differences depicted for female Sharpie in Wheeler and Clark's book.

Have to agree. Those legs are awfully thin.
 
I did an interesting test. I remembered that I had photographed a Great-tailed Grackle in the same tree as the Hawk (ie., the same distance). I compared the length of the Grackle to the height of the Hawk and it was a perfect fit for the Cooper's Hawk. The Sharpie would have been considerably shorter.
 
Coops & Sharpies are both strongly sexually dimorphic, with the female being much bigger than the male in each case. Female Sharpies & male Coops are not all that different in size (though I understand there's little or no overlap), and that's what we're faced with here: male Coop vs female Sharpie.

So your grackle was a "perfect fit" for what exactly, a male Coop as opposed to the very similarly sized female Sharpie? I doubt very much if a comparison accurately distinguishing the 2 could be made under the circumstances you describe.
 
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Hi Bob all.

As much as I still see a Cooper´s male and was planing to come back with a few more features, such as the legs, thin or thick, usually a classic feature. However, it can´t be trusted all the way since some Cooper´s (males) can have thin legs. I did however, put this thread on to the Facebook Hawk ID group to see what Jerry Liguouri and the boys had in mind for this Accipiter. The answer was unanimous in agreement for a male Cooper´s. Also consider the greyish cheek.

http://www.hawkwatch.org/blog/item/654-coopers-hawks-with-skinny-legs

JanJ
 
cooper's based on: flat crown with clear demarcated cap, pale nape (visible on side of upper hindneck, this is darker in sharpie) and, most important: shorter outer tail feathers, the ones visible in front and clearly ending before the outer ones. this is diagnostic for cooper's!
 
cooper's based on: flat crown with clear demarcated cap, pale nape (visible on side of upper hindneck, this is darker in sharpie) and, most important: shorter outer tail feathers, the ones visible in front and clearly ending before the outer ones. this is diagnostic for cooper's!



I am careful with the tail shape on perched Cooper's or Sharp-shinned Hawks.

Wheeler in his RAPTORS of North America, in the Western Edition at page 184 in SIMILAR SPECIES when comparing perched Cooper's Hawk with perched Sharp-shinned Hawk states: "Rectrix length on underside of tail helpful; however a very round tipped tail on female Sharp-shinned Hawks is identical to that of Cooper's Hawks."

At page 170 when comparing perched Sharp-shinned Hawks with perched Cooper's Hawks he states: "Use caution when comparing very rounded tail of female Sharp-shinned Hawks as they can be very like Cooper's Hawks."

My first impression on this bird was that it is a male Cooper's Hawk without referring to the shape of the tail. I have seen a couple of them up close recently this year. The Tarsi look big enough for a Cooper's Hawk in my experience and the cheeks are gray.

I think I will stick with that.

Bob
 
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Wow, did I start a long discussion on this one.
Bob, a hyperbolic quote from "Hawks in Flight" by Dunne, Sibley, and Sutton: "Arguments about identification of accipiters may well account for more broken friendships and more failed marriages between hawk watchers than all other causes combined."
 
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