What is the name of that factory in Japan that makes all the lenses> (1 Viewer)

gindog · Apr 30, 2007

Have had it mentioned to me again this weekend. They apparently make binoculars and scopes but put a slightly different grip or focus wheel ends or caps onfor the different brands. Who are they please? I was told they do Delta, among others.

Is there any maker that makes their own lenses and that are better than the Japanese maker?

cheers

obm

ThoLa · Apr 30, 2007

oldbaldman said:
Have had it mentioned to me again this weekend. They apparently make binoculars and scopes but put a slightly different grip or focus wheel ends or caps onfor the different brands. Who are they please? I was told they do Delta, among others.

Is there any maker that makes their own lenses and that are better than the Japanese maker?

cheers

obm

Tamron?
They were supposed to manufacture camera lenses for more than one major company in the past.

Zeiss makes its on lenses, Swarovski presumably too.

Tom

hinnark · Apr 30, 2007

oldbaldman said:
Have had it mentioned to me again this weekend. They apparently make binoculars and scopes but put a slightly different grip or focus wheel ends or caps onfor the different brands. Who are they please? I was told they do Delta, among others.

Kamakura Koki Co., Ltd.

Is there any maker that makes their own lenses and that are better than the Japanese maker?

Nikon use their own glass/lenses for their top products. Don´t know if this is the case for their cheaper products and if those are better than the Kamakura stuff.
Thomas: Zeiss, Swarovski and others produce their own lenses. But the glass comes in changing portions from Schott, Hoya and Ohara.

Steve

ThoLa · Apr 30, 2007

hinnark said:
Kamakura Koki Co., Ltd.

Nikon use their own glass/lenses for their top products. Don´t know if this is the case for their cheaper products and if those are better than the Kamakura stuff.
Thomas: Zeiss, Swarovski and others produce their own lenses. But the glass comes in changing portions from Schott, Hoya and Ohara.

Steve

Hi Steve!
I know .... a little bit.
Schott is part of the "Zeiss Group", so it's obvious who makes the famous FL glass.
Leica gets its glass from Corning in the USA.
Swarovski may have its own melting facility as they are big in glass in general.

For a long time there have been constant rumours that highly reputed japanese companies like Pentax and Minolta got their optical elements either from Tamron or Hoya.
Who knows?

It is probably not too important as several makers seem to have good recipes.

Tom

gindog · Apr 30, 2007

Thank you very much. Kamakura was the name mentioned to me.

I tried a couple of scopes at the weekend and was fortunate to be able to make a direct comparison between my Jessops own brand Centon 20 - 60 x 60 scope and an Opticron scope with a 50 lens and an Optolyth with a 70 lens.

Due to heat haze I could not test at a good distance but from what I did try I saw no improvement over my basic Jessops scope.

Looks to me as though you have to spend a lot of money to achieve improvements.

obm

Blincodave · May 1, 2007

As far as I am aware, Kamakura is the name (or something very similar) For example, the high end Nikon binos are designed/engineered by Nikon but manufactured for them bythis massive binocular manufacturer in Japan who make optics to a budget/design/quality specification. The HG range is at the top of this Japanese manufacturers 'range'.

Opticron/RSPB/Avians/Deltas etc are probably all produced in the same factory. The super Bausch & Lomb Elites of a few years ago also came from the same place. If you wanted to start a range of 'oldbaldman Optics' and were willing to order enough, then they would produce them for you! This could explain the similar build feel/look between several 'brands'.

In effect there are only 4 significant binocular manufacturers in the world: Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski and this Japanese manufacturer. I was told all of this by the guy who owns a major retail outlet in the South East. Nikons budget gear is manufactured in China - the Nikon ED 50 Scope being the first quality exception to this.

Dave

Leif · May 1, 2007

As far as I am aware Nikon do not outsource manufacturing of binoculars. Where did you get that information? They have their own glass works. They have sometimes outsourced low end cameras and lenses such as the FM10 which I think was made by Cosina. I suspect they also outsource some accessories (judging by the poor quality).

chartwell99 · May 1, 2007

Blincodave said:
As far as I am aware, Kamakura is the name (or something very similar) For example, the high end Nikon binos are designed/engineered by Nikon but manufactured for them bythis massive binocular manufacturer in Japan who make optics to a budget/design/quality specification. The HG range is at the top of this Japanese manufacturers 'range'.

Opticron/RSPB/Avians/Deltas etc are probably all produced in the same factory. The super Bausch & Lomb Elites of a few years ago also came from the same place. If you wanted to start a range of 'oldbaldman Optics' and were willing to order enough, then they would produce them for you! This could explain the similar build feel/look between several 'brands'.

In effect there are only 4 significant binocular manufacturers in the world: Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski and this Japanese manufacturer. I was told all of this by the guy who owns a major retail outlet in the South East. Nikons budget gear is manufactured in China - the Nikon ED 50 Scope being the first quality exception to this.

Dave

I wonder whether this Japanese maker also assembles binoculars for Minox and Docter as there is no "Made in Germany" tag on either despite the blizzard of German on the boxes of both brands.

Curtis Croulet · May 1, 2007

Leif said:
As far as I am aware Nikon do not outsource manufacturing of binoculars.

The 8x42 Monarch we bought for our daughter a year or two ago was made in China.

gindog · May 1, 2007

Missed out on a used swaro scope today. After discussion with partner and discussing how often we go birding, most weekends, we figured it would be worth making the once in a lifetime spend, and getting (arguably) one of the best.

Also had a chat with a very very helpful guy at the Norfolk branch of In Focus who told me a bit about Kamakura etc and other lenses. I am not sure that "Oldbaldman" binoculars would sell well? No matter how much spec I put in.

From from what I read here and what has been said to me it seems that at the lower price end market the visible sight differences are less marked than bottom market to top of market.

Still little gems to be found tho as I discovered in a charity shop today. A pair of ReVUE 8 x 40 bins with very good views through them and only £9.00. Seems to be a German company. That is all I could find out.

thanks for the input here, very helpful. looks like I need to go top one of the big 4.

obm

alan_rymer · May 1, 2007

Curtis Croulet said:
The 8x42 Monarch we bought for our daughter a year or two ago was made in China.

And my Monarch 8x36s I bought this year.

Blincodave · May 1, 2007

Another example of Nikon's outsourcing may well the Nikon Spotter XL Spotting Scope which is very similar to the B&L Elite 15-45 x 60. Again, I believe they originate in the same Japanese factory. I would think the excellent Spotting Scopes such as the ED82 are manufactured in house.

Dave

hinnark · May 1, 2007

chartwell99 said:
I wonder whether this Japanese maker also assembles binoculars for Minox and Docter as there is no "Made in Germany" tag on either despite the blizzard of German on the boxes of both brands.

I think we should avoid to mix all things together here. Kamakura assembled binoculars for Minox and e.g. Pentax but not for Docter. Docter optics are still made in Germany, Eisfeld. You can find this tag somewhere on the box.
BTW the collaborating between German brands and Japanese makers started in the late sixties. German brand names like e.g. Eschenbach, Revue, Exacta. There is a code on older binoculars like this with which one can identify the Japanese factory.

Leif: I think you are right about Nikon binoculars.
The 50ED is indeed one of the first quality optics I saw "Made in China". Another one is the Fujinon 12x32 Technostabi.

Steve

Leif · May 1, 2007

chartwell99 said:
I wonder whether this Japanese maker also assembles binoculars for Minox and Docter as there is no "Made in Germany" tag on either despite the blizzard of German on the boxes of both brands.

I have no idea about Docter but I'm sure some if not all Minox bins are made in Japan, or at least by a Japanese company, perhaps with manufacturing in China.

gindog · May 6, 2007

Can anyone pls confirm my belief - that the reVue 8 x 30 (not 40 as I earlier stated) will be better in bright light conditions. And the Hans Weiss 8 x 40 that my partner uses will be better in lower light conditions? And, that this is all down to the size of the lens at front, mainly, as I know quality of the glass etc also figures in the equation?

We went to Pagham today and in bright light the reVue gave excellent viewing. Being lighter and smaller than the Hans Weiss they were her preferred option.

And if anyone can tell me anything about Hans Weiss binoculars, that would be great as I cannot find anything.

many thanx

obm

Tero · May 7, 2007

alan_rymer said:
And my Monarch 8x36s I bought this year.

But the discussion was outsourcing. They may own the factory in China.

chartwell99 · May 7, 2007

hinnark said:
I think we should avoid to mix all things together here. Kamakura assembled binoculars for Minox and e.g. Pentax but not for Docter. Docter optics are still made in Germany, Eisfeld. You can find this tag somewhere on the box.

Steve

Steve,

I checked both my box and binoculars and there is no "Made in Germany" mention anywhere on either for Docter binoculars. Interestingly, the rainguard for my Docter 8 x 42 is identical to that sold by Eagle Optics and supplied with Celestron and other privately branded binoculars, and almost surely made in the Far East. If you are right that Analytik Jena is still manaufaturering binoculars in Eisfeld, I wonder why they don't say so. Certainly Leica and Zeiss are not bashful about identifying their respective countries of origin, even if that means Hungary in the case of the Zeiss Conquests and the predecessor Diafuns.

ThoLa · May 7, 2007

chartwell99 said:
Steve,

I checked both my box and binoculars and there is no "Made in Germany" mention anywhere on either for Docter binoculars. Interestingly, the rainguard for my Docter 8 x 42 is identical to that sold by Eagle Optics and supplied with Celestron and other privately branded binoculars, and almost surely made in the Far East. If you are right that Analytik Jena is still manaufaturering binoculars in Eisfeld, I wonder why they don't say so. Certainly Leica and Zeiss are not bashful about identifying their respective countries of origin, even if that means Hungary in the case of the Zeiss Conquests and the predecessor Diafuns.

Here's the company history:
http://www.docter-germany.com/front...t_id=223&PHPSESSID=l8tfc97a31glqvvptaks992fg5

The optical quality of their products is mediocre at best.

Tom

chartwell99 · May 7, 2007

ThoLa said:
Here's the company history:
http://www.docter-germany.com/front...t_id=223&PHPSESSID=l8tfc97a31glqvvptaks992fg5

The optical quality of their products is mediocre at best.

Tom

I actually find the optical quality of the Docter 8 x 42 to be remarkably good, with an evenly illuminated flat field, excellent contrast and commendable sharpness. Image brightness is inferior to the current crop of alpha bins but not objectionable. Holger Merlitz has a review of the Docter 8 x 42 cited in another thread which arrives at the same conclusions. All that said, however, I am still skeptical that the binocular was actually manufactured (as opposed to "designed") in Eisfeld, Germany, given the absence of a "Made in Germany" badge on either the binocular or the box.

hinnark · May 7, 2007

chartwell99 said:
I actually find the optical quality of the Docter 8 x 42 to be remarkably good, with an evenly illuminated flat field, excellent contrast and commendable sharpness. Image brightness is inferior to the current crop of alpha bins but not objectionable. Holger Merlitz has a review of the Docter 8 x 42 cited in another thread which arrives at the same conclusions. All that said, however, I am still skeptical that the binocular was actually manufactured (as opposed to "designed") in Eisfeld, Germany, given the absence of a "Made in Germany" badge on either the binocular or the box.

Chartwell,

I saw last year a recent 8x42 Docter´s box with a writing "Made in Germany". To the rainguard: nobody knows where all the optic accessories of all the brands come from. It surely could be that the rainguard is made somewhere in Asia but not the binoculars. Why don´t ask Docter themselves?
However, I agree that the Docter 8x42 B is in its priceleague one of the best available. In fact the flatness or sharpness across the field is remarkable and can compete with the very best. With improved contrast and light transmission this binocular would raise to the top bins.

Steve

What is the name of that factory in Japan that makes all the lenses> (1 Viewer)

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