• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

2012 UK Orchid season updates (3 Viewers)

Marsh Helleborine

One Marsh Helleborine in full flower at Wiltshire site today, a couple more with first flower just opening and loads more in bud. Should be a good display in a week or so.

Alan
 

Attachments

  • Marsh Helleborine, Wiltshire.jpg
    Marsh Helleborine, Wiltshire.jpg
    94.6 KB · Views: 94
Where did you get acrollophyllous from Sean? Not in my dictionary, and no results when I googled it! do you mean lacking chlorophyll?

Var. monotropoides is in Harrap 2005.

More to the point of this thread, a google search for "broad-leaved helleborine" + monotropoides will give several results, including:-

http://www.bsbi.org.uk/WarksBotanicalReport2011.pdf

There is a photograph of monotropoides on the first page, and yes, it does have a purple stem, exactly as Byron's photograph.

Alan

Hi Alan

I have the Birdforum app on my iphone now and it changes words it doesn't recognise into something nobody recognises! I meant achlorophyllous, lacking in chlorophyll.

Like most Orchidophiles of my generation, I use Turner Ettlinger for my names, and he calls this one (presumably wrongly then) albifolia.Both the white and pale purple versions are the result of the same mutation/ecological conditions.

Dave - I doubt soil ph is the issue, as these plants always appear in colonies of normal coloured ones. One of my theories for these was chlorination from road salt!



Cheers

Sean
 
Last edited:
This is my first post.

I was interested to see a post about a sighting of Common spotted orchid var. Rhodochila in Somerset. Today I went to Alyn Waters, (nr Wrexham, N Wales) and was directed to a single specimen (probably just past its peak) of this variety.

The other surprise at this local site was to see quite a few Dune Helleborines - not yet fully in flower - another week or two, I should think. We had been over to Anglesey to Newborough Warren last week, but had certainly not expected to find them on our doorstep - well away from dunes. They were growing in the margins of light woodland on the Nature Reserve. Does anyone know how long they have been here?

Hi there

The rhodochila was referred to in an earlier post on here.....

The Epipactis at Alyn Waters were identified last year as Dune helleborines for the first time. Previously they were thought to be Broad-leaved.

There is quite a large number of Dune types there, but many if not all are what has been termed facultatively allogamous -i.e. they start out cross-pollinated before turning self-pollinated. This is an important feature when separating difficult helleborines. Other plants look closer to Broad-leaved.

Although it is currently accepted (based on visits last year by various people) that most plants there are "inland" Dune helleborines, my personal opinion is that more study might reveal some interesting results for not only this population but other inland ones in the north west.

Sean
 
The Epipactis at Alyn Waters were identified last year as Dune helleborines for the first time. Previously they were thought to be Broad-leaved.

There is quite a large number of Dune types there, but many if not all are what has been termed facultatively allogamous -i.e. they start out cross-pollinated before turning self-pollinated. This is an important feature when separating difficult helleborines. Other plants look closer to Broad-leaved.

Although it is currently accepted (based on visits last year by various people) that most plants there are "inland" Dune helleborines, my personal opinion is that more study might reveal some interesting results for not only this population but other inland ones in the north west.

Sean

An intermediate plant from Alyn Waters last year.

Mike.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2296.JPG
    IMG_2296.JPG
    46.1 KB · Views: 64
  • IMG_22951.JPG
    IMG_22951.JPG
    32.8 KB · Views: 66
I saw lots of frog orchids on the scarp near Aston Rowant this afternoon. Recent rain has resulted in some impressive spikes of common spotted. Three perfect white specimens. Only one bee orchid, though. That was disappointing.

Hilary
 
I saw lots of frog orchids on the scarp near Aston Rowant this afternoon. Recent rain has resulted in some impressive spikes of common spotted. Three perfect white specimens. Only one bee orchid, though. That was disappointing.

Hilary

Hi Hilary

Did you see the hydrids or the rhodochila?

Sean
 
Shropshire Frog orchids - finally!

Recieved an invitation to visit the last reliable Shropshire site for Frog orchids and went yesterday, showed around by the very proud owners of the 2 small meadows in which they seem to thrive in surprisingly long grass under the shade of oak - a seemingly unsuitable habitat! Most of them had gone over but still managed a few good shots. Great to see active management succeeding in providing an excellent pocket of habitat for this and many other species.

Mike.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5539.JPG
    IMG_5539.JPG
    350 KB · Views: 80
  • IMG_5550.JPG
    IMG_5550.JPG
    271.2 KB · Views: 88
  • IMG_5562.JPG
    IMG_5562.JPG
    318.5 KB · Views: 90
  • IMG_5578.JPG
    IMG_5578.JPG
    278.6 KB · Views: 95
  • IMG_5604.JPG
    IMG_5604.JPG
    324.3 KB · Views: 77
Hi all

Just back from a week camping in the New Forest, so for anyone heading that way an update on the orchids seen. However some advice that might come in useful. I have never seen the New Forest so wet underfoot at this time of year. Take wellies or like me suffer wet feet all day!

Bog Orchid - first few plants now in flower
Lesser Butterfly Orchid - very good numbers. Probably at their peak last week but there will still be many 'good' ones to see/photograph
Heath Fragrant Orchid - first plants now in flower
Early Marsh Orchid sub spp puchella - just past their best, but still a few 'good' ones
Heath Spotted Orchid - abundant throughout.

Also had a trip to Noar Hill but that site has been covered recently above.

Finally, although not an orchid good numbers of Wild Gladiolus also seen (30 flowering at one site and 9 at another).

Cheers

Grahame
 
A few days ago we went up north & stopped at Gait Barrows unfortunately the Lady’s were mostly gone over, but just 2 we still in flower. Just down the path to the boggy area and several common spotted & northern marsh & a couple of large hybrids, presumed from these 2. However 2 days later on the Pennine Way we found a lot more hybrids & nothing with them, but I understand they are also Northern Marsh X Heath Spotted !
 

Attachments

  • Lady's-slipper_opt.jpg
    Lady's-slipper_opt.jpg
    99.7 KB · Views: 60
  • Lady's-slipper2_opt.jpg
    Lady's-slipper2_opt.jpg
    99.4 KB · Views: 60
  • Northern-marsh-X-Comm-spott.jpg
    Northern-marsh-X-Comm-spott.jpg
    99.8 KB · Views: 64
  • N-marsh_hybrid_opt.jpg
    N-marsh_hybrid_opt.jpg
    100 KB · Views: 65
  • N-marsh_hybrid2_opt.jpg
    N-marsh_hybrid2_opt.jpg
    97.7 KB · Views: 58
Next day in Cumbria some rather stunning large; Small White orchids, from here down south of Little Asby, some northern & early marsh hybrids. From here to see some traunsteinerioides, & to end the day several Frog orchid var “longibracteatum”, & these are a foot tall.
 

Attachments

  • Small-White2_opt.jpg
    Small-White2_opt.jpg
    93.4 KB · Views: 88
  • northern-X-early-marsh_opt.jpg
    northern-X-early-marsh_opt.jpg
    99.7 KB · Views: 66
  • pugsley's_opt.jpg
    pugsley's_opt.jpg
    109.8 KB · Views: 82
  • Frog-longi_opt.jpg
    Frog-longi_opt.jpg
    100 KB · Views: 86
  • Frog-longi2_opt.jpg
    Frog-longi2_opt.jpg
    99.3 KB · Views: 79
Next day up to Gown Bank to look for the northern marsh X heath spotted hybrids, some are nm lip with hs markings & others hs lip with nm markings! ?? Also several Gymnadenia borealis, and a few D.i. coccinea, we have poss only seen these before in Kenfig.
 

Attachments

  • Heath-fragrant_opt.jpg
    Heath-fragrant_opt.jpg
    87.3 KB · Views: 59
  • north-m-X-heath-spot_opt.jpg
    north-m-X-heath-spot_opt.jpg
    99.2 KB · Views: 55
  • north-m-X-heath-spot-close_.jpg
    north-m-X-heath-spot-close_.jpg
    99.5 KB · Views: 51
  • heath-spott-X-north-marsh_o.jpg
    heath-spott-X-north-marsh_o.jpg
    97.9 KB · Views: 45
  • D.i.coccinea_opt.jpg
    D.i.coccinea_opt.jpg
    99 KB · Views: 69
Hi all

Just back from a week camping in the New Forest, so for anyone heading that way an update on the orchids seen. However some advice that might come in useful. I have never seen the New Forest so wet underfoot at this time of year. Take wellies or like me suffer wet feet all day!

Bog Orchid - first few plants now in flower
Lesser Butterfly Orchid - very good numbers. Probably at their peak last week but there will still be many 'good' ones to see/photograph
Heath Fragrant Orchid - first plants now in flower
Early Marsh Orchid sub spp puchella - just past their best, but still a few 'good' ones
Heath Spotted Orchid - abundant throughout.

Also had a trip to Noar Hill but that site has been covered recently above.

Finally, although not an orchid good numbers of Wild Gladiolus also seen (30 flowering at one site and 9 at another).

Cheers

Grahame
I'm off to the New Forest soon, where's the best site for Heath Fragrant Orchid
 
Todays oddities

It finally stopped raining for a while today so I visited a local, very wet, bog.

Plenty of Marsh Helleborines and Chalk Fragrants in flower, including a Marsh Helleborine where one of the flowers had no lip! And it doesn't look it has ever had a lip either.

Also an alba Fragrant where, on many of the flowers the sepals had spread but the lip hadn't unfurled. No sure what is going on there, I would expect this on the odd, latest flower but not on a whole bunch.

Rich M
 

Attachments

  • SNV30895.JPG
    SNV30895.JPG
    81.7 KB · Views: 47
  • SNV30925.JPG
    SNV30925.JPG
    86.9 KB · Views: 42
  • SNV30923.JPG
    SNV30923.JPG
    99.6 KB · Views: 57
  • IMG_5701.JPG
    IMG_5701.JPG
    116.8 KB · Views: 68
  • SNV30917.JPG
    SNV30917.JPG
    36.8 KB · Views: 44
Late Spider's dangly bits

According to Harraps "Late Spider orchid is not usually self-pollinating and its pollinia never dangle loose".

The attached photos, both taken at the same site on the same day, suggest otherwise.

Anyone got any views?

Rich M
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5423.JPG
    IMG_5423.JPG
    115.3 KB · Views: 71
  • IMG_5446.JPG
    IMG_5446.JPG
    83 KB · Views: 76
According to Harraps "Late Spider orchid is not usually self-pollinating and its pollinia never dangle loose".

The attached photos, both taken at the same site on the same day, suggest otherwise.

Anyone got any views?

Rich M

Maybe the heavy rain just forced them out?

Also, are you sure your fragrant orchids aren't densiflora, especially if they're flowering so late with Marsh helleborine?

Mike.
 
Maybe the heavy rain just forced them out?

Also, are you sure your fragrant orchids aren't densiflora, especially if they're flowering so late with Marsh helleborine?

Mike.

The Late Spiders were photographed on May 31st before the rains started.

I'm happy to be corrected on the Fragrant, given they are a scarce species locally with just 2 sites (the other is dry, on top of Mendip) and no definite records of Marsh Fragrant.

A few years ago we tried to ascribe plants from both sites between Chalk and Marsh but gave up with both sites having plants showing features of both, and many intermediate. I even posted a series of photos from both sites on this forum, with a challenge for anyone to separate which came from which site. The inflorescence at both sites is quite loose, not dense.

I've attached a close up of the flower of todays alba. To my mind although the lip is wider than long, with shoulders, it is still quite 3 lobed. The lateral sepals are long but not blunt and are held slightly below horizontal. I've also attached 3 photos taken at the site some years ago.

What are people's views?

Rich M
 

Attachments

  • SNV30909.JPG
    SNV30909.JPG
    55.6 KB · Views: 46
  • Fragrant flower.JPG
    Fragrant flower.JPG
    39.5 KB · Views: 42
  • Fragrant flower 1.JPG
    Fragrant flower 1.JPG
    50.4 KB · Views: 39
  • Fragrant flower 2.JPG
    Fragrant flower 2.JPG
    29.8 KB · Views: 40
Warning! This thread is more than 11 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top