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Nikon lxl 8x32 vs. Vortex Viper 8X32 series 1 vs. Nikon EII's (1 Viewer)

b-lilja

Well-known member
Spent a fascinating afternoon birding with these three binos. Moved through the three and really could not decide which I liked more.

The lxl build quality is just lovely. The edge to edge picture is great. I do find the grip/strap loop location to be odd and puts the hold balance off kilter. The colors were lovely but a notch off the Vipers. But the biggest issue, and this was significant, was that the image sharpness was just not quite what I'd like, at least I think so. It is a tough call at times; but overall it seemed not quite as sharp as the Viper in particular. Since for me this is perhaps the most important thing it cast a slight pall over the lxl. Again, it was right on the edge.

The Viper from a build/gestalt standpoint is fine, but not great. The focusing knob glue broke loose allowing me to remove the focusing knob sleeve. Plasticy. Cheap. The diopter adjustment, not great. The body itself is pretty good. Whoever came up with the naming for these binos really needs to find another line of work. Vortex Viper? Are these for watching X games?

All that said, I do really like these binos. The thing the ultimately sways me is the combination of image crispness at the center and vibrant colors. Also, they are lighter than the lxl's. They fit in the hand just right as well. I plan to glue an old walking liberty quarter on the face of focusing knob so I don't have to read "Vortex Viper" every time I look at them. Also, they really fit the hand great - really the best of the three.

The biggest downside, and it is significant, is the very poor image quality off center. These are crisper at center than the lxl's but across the field the lxl's really shine. It is the difference between watching the whole setting and focusing on the bird. The lxl's feels like they're for nature lovers and the vortex's for listers. Not a judgement between the two, just different.

Then of course are the EII's. I've owned my black bodied pair since new (actually factory refurb) since the late 90s. They are amazing bins but I will say the two above did not shrink from comparison - all three are great mid range bins. I do have to say the field of view of the EII's are great, and the slightly lower magnification, as well as featherweight, also helps with image sharpness - you can really hold these guys very steady. The colors maybe don't snap like the Vipers, but that really doesn't matter that much to me, they're great. Nice build quality too, between the lxl's and the Vipers. Serial 805947 for those of you really geeked out.

I may just keep all three.
 
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Do I understand you to say that your EII has been factory refurbished and that you have owned it since the late 1990's?

Did you send it back to Nikon for refurbishing which would be understandable as they would be about 14 years old now? I believe the EII was first put on the market in 1998.

When was the binocular refurbished and do you know if Nikon changed the SN on it when they did the refurbishing? This might explain the new 800xxx SN series.

I have a 10 x 35 EII which I purchased newly refurbished and identified as such around 2004. SN30xxxx. Stamped underneath the 3 in the SN is a very tiny slot which is supposed to indicate that it is a refurbished item. It's serial number AFAIK remained unchanged. I wonder if your EII has that slot stamped there also?

Bob
 
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You know, I was going off of memory. I actually am not at all sure when I got them. It very possibly is the early-mid 2000s. I bought them new as factory refurbs from Captain's here in Seattle.

Another thing I should add - birding with a scope over the shoulder, I significantly prefer the EIIs over the other two due to lightness and field of view - I can more easily one hand them steadily with the scope over my other shoulder. Small but important detail.

Oh - and no slot on the SN.
 
Is this the original Viper or the new HD? The HD is a lot better across the field and at the edge than the original.
 
I was going to say, the black body version didn't exist in the late 1990s, these are the latest version produced.

Two 8x EII gray body samples' serial #s start with 501 and 503, so the 800xxx could be a renumbering based on the changeover to the black body and peel-proof armoring similar to how the SEs were renumbered when Nikon changed them over to Eco-Glass.

I find the color saturation and contrast on my gray body 8x EII to be nearly as good as the Nikon 8x32 HG, which I rate as top notch. Even a bit better than the 2009 EL WB and SLC.

I haven't tried the Viper, but being spoiled by the sharp centerfield and edges of both the SE and EII, I probably wouldn't like it.

One caveat. I found the edge sharpness only to be good on the lateral edges of the 8x32 HGLs (two samples). The upper edge and lower edge were not as good, the upper being the worst, falling off at about 60%, still useable, but not sharp and cannot be refocused.

Could be Henry's "hair eyeball astigmatism," which I see in most my bins when looking up at the top edge, but in the 8x32 HG, this was much more pronounced. I had to move the binoculars up to see the birds on the top rung of my three rung feeder. If I tilted the bin on its side, I could see the birds in focus on all three rungs. I think that rules out the "hairy eyeball effect".

I agree about the ergonomics. The hideaway, winged strap lugs design works well on the full sized model, but for the 8x32, you need to have small hands for them to act as a "backstop" for your palms. If I put my palms in front of the strap lugs, my hands stick out well beyond the end of the barrels. The steep curve at the EP end of the housing also prevents you from using a "thumbs back" grip (unless you have double jointed thumbs).

With no thumb indents, I could only support the HG from the top and sides. I found it difficult to hold steady, which was the reason I got rid of it.

I wonder if what you're seeing as "vibrant colors" in the Viper is from ED glass. Given Vortex's penchant for misleading proprietary terms, does the "HD" mean ED glass? It says "high density". What does that mean? If it's ED glass, the color and contrast would be somewhat better than the EII and HG.

EDIT: Just looked it up HD = ED for the Vortex Viper. @ $559, it better be!

My choice was the 8x30 EII. Sharpest image, widest FOV, and best depth perception. I had to modify the body so I could hold it steady since it was too "stubby" for my large hands.

Photo 1: one side assembled, other side parts shown.

Photo 2: modified 8x EII next to 8x32 SE

bp
 

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How were the HG's for you as far as image sharpness? As I said above, they are right on the line of acceptability for me. I wonder if my sample isn't the best.

I have small hands so they fit on the barrels in front of the strap bump out but the are imbalanced. They do rest on my brow though which isn't a terrible thing as far as steadiness goes.
 
my experience with the Viper is similar -- they are just SHARP binoculars, the center field resolution is astounding. It's a combination of resolution, contrast, color... but the details just POP in the center. The 8x32 Viper HD are the sharpest bins I've used. The HD version has even better optics (although not a major difference) with slightly better color/brightness and much improved control of color fringing.

and, there is no doubt, they cannot compete outside of the sweet spot with the edge-to-edge performance of the Nikon premium bins. That is an area where Nikon really kills it. The Viper design really seems to have been a conscious tradeoff, sacrificing FOV and edge performance for a tack sharp center field performance and an ultra compact / lightweight body style.

in terms of the focus knob, my experience has been great with all the Vipers I've tried. I absolutely love the focus knob on the Vipers. Perhaps you should send it back to Vortex and take advantage of that no-fault lifetime warranty? I wouldn't want to put up with that.
 
my experience with the Viper is similar -- they are just SHARP binoculars, the center field resolution is astounding. It's a combination of resolution, contrast, color... but the details just POP in the center. The 8x32 Viper HD are the sharpest bins I've used. The HD version has even better optics (although not a major difference) with slightly better color/brightness and much improved control of color fringing.

and, there is no doubt, they cannot compete outside of the sweet spot with the edge-to-edge performance of the Nikon premium bins. That is an area where Nikon really kills it. The Viper design really seems to have been a conscious tradeoff, sacrificing FOV and edge performance for a tack sharp center field performance and an ultra compact / lightweight body style.

in terms of the focus knob, my experience has been great with all the Vipers I've tried. I absolutely love the focus knob on the Vipers. Perhaps you should send it back to Vortex and take advantage of that no-fault lifetime warranty? I wouldn't want to put up with that.

That's pretty much the perfect assessment to me.

Interesting re the focusing knob - it is not smooth on mine. The LXL's is miles better. And the diopter is a little funky (again, the LXL is a couple steps up). Sounds like a good one to send back for some help.

I still plan to epoxy on a walking liberty though.
 
How were the HG's for you as far as image sharpness? As I said above, they are right on the line of acceptability for me. I wonder if my sample isn't the best.

I have small hands so they fit on the barrels in front of the strap bump out but the are imbalanced. They do rest on my brow though which isn't a terrible thing as far as steadiness goes.

The 8x32 HG was "sharp enough" but not as sharp as the full sized models, which were close to the SE series in apparent sharpness. I never did a formal test, but I think mooreorless did since he had the same sample I had and I had the same sample SE he had.

I have no complaints about the image sharpness in the 8x32 HG (other than the astigmatism on top) since the excellent color and contrast made up for it being a bit behind its bigger siblings, but rather it was the difficulty in getting the image sharp that was the problem for me.

The focus on the 8x32 HG was so fast (< 1/2 turn from close focus to infinity) that it played tricks with my focus accommodation at medium range, so I'd have to overshoot my target and then toggle back to find the sharpest focus. That's the other reason I no longer have them.

It was cool to look down and be able to focus on your shoes, though. :)

bp
 
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I actually like the fast focus - for tracking birds in flight - but now I wonder how much of my image sharpness issue was tied to that. I'll have to check it out more.
 
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