Birding, nature and kids (1 Viewer)

Hi all,

One thing that makes me increasingly despair is the attitude by most nature lovers regarding trying to encourage kids to get involved.

Maybe it's a Kent thing, but it seems that most nature lovers are self-absorbed loners with a 'Simpsons *Mo' attitude towards kids, regardless of the child's interest in nature.

What are the reasons for this?

Cheers,

Andy.

* "Ahhh, the laughter of children; it cuts through me like a knife...."

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would definitely qualify as to having the Mo attitude.

Don't get me wrong, we need the next generation to take an interest and if you can find a way to get your kids interested then that can only be a good thing, but to use your "most" generalisation, most kids are noisy and counter productive to my birding, so I do my best to avoid them when out and about.

QUOTE=Trystan;3007168]I can't speak for anyone else, but I would definitely qualify as to having the Mo attitude.

Don't get me wrong, we need the next generation to take an interest and if you can find a way to get your kids interested then that can only be a good thing, but to use your "most" generalisation, most kids are noisy and counter productive to my birding, so I do my best to avoid them when out and about.[/QUOTE]

Me too.

If anyone's looking for a good example of the Mo attitude:
http://proregulus.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/swimming-cows.html

Andrew Whitehouse said:

If anyone's looking for a good example of the Mo attitude:
http://proregulus.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/swimming-cows.html

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Blame our schools here. Proper use of the English language isn't taught.
What does one say when it's an inanimate object, say a radio controlled
big foot truck, and the owner-operator is stationed 400 meters distant?

I have to say that I personally cannot stand kids 'but' that's an attitude I had long before I got interested in wildlife! However, I have on occasion tried to share wildlife experiences with people I see out and about, some who were with their kids. I remember showing a guy and his children a hawk moth that I picked up from a footpath near my house and the kids were fascinated and that was really nice, to be able to show them something really cool like that. I've also, however, talked to a family about some insects I was looking at while out on a walk one day and the kid just walked up, took one look and stomped on them. :-C

My interest in nature was inspired and furthered by older people when I was growing up. Whether it was volunteers who ran the local YOC group or a patient adult taking time to answer a snotty little brat's questions I'd like to thank them. I agree that noisy sprogs and wildlife viewing do not always go well together but I do try and encourage younger naturalists if only to give them the help that others gave to me. Not sure I'd take them on a twitch though, there's some adult behaviour that kids just aren't ready to see.

James.

I spend most of my time at a heavily visited site (Sunday afternoons I tend to avoid). Parents with children are usually OK. I think it's good they take them out for a walk or a bike ride. If they show some interest, I will try and show something nice if it's there (a Roe Deer or Kingfisher or so). There's a sign showing some of the birds that could be present and children are often fascinated by this: I think encouragement is in place!
I can't really blame them for thinking that a viewing platform is there for climbing (most parents will try and control their children).
But I am not involved in any active encouragement programmes or so – at most I try to passively encourage people by steadily reporting what I see locally.

Reading the title of the thread I hoped for something like advice on how to get my own kids into nature and birding. Wrong thread I realise :-C

dalat said:

Reading the title of the thread I hoped for something like advice on how to get my own kids into nature and birding. Wrong thread I realise :-C

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I take my 3 year old most Wednesdays to the WWT. He loves it. We spend most of our time feeding the collection of wildfowl but I usually get 10-20 mins (it used to be 1-2mins) in one of the hides. The attitude toward him from the other birders there prompted me to join their local bird club. Now they know him so well that if I turn up without him they ask where he is? He always gets made a fuss of.

Don't get me wrong. There are times when I prefer peace, quiet and solitude but during these times I certainly wouldn't be going to the local RSPB reserve or WWT.

Rich

Interesting comments.

I know there are some true heroes out there when it comes to encouraging kids (and adults) to enjoy and appreciate nature. To be fair though, I get the ‘antis’ as it is ‘our’ hobby. A chance to get away from all the other stuff and chill out. Why would we want noisy kids spoiling it?

I am one of those people at a twitch who will show all and sundry the bird through my scope. If a child shows an interest, then even better. That child could make a difference one day.

So many anecdotes. My favourite was when I turned up for an Iberian Chiffchaff in Chatham. As I walked towards where I thought the bird was, about 8-9 older teenagers in hoodies, hoods up, approached me. Deep breathe…..prepare to think and talk quickly. First words out of the mouth of the first teen “I had a Jay in my garden yesterday”. Easy win after all. They even showed me where the Chiffchaff was. Relevant to this thread in that it’s not safe to judge by appearance and a poor response from me could have put them off.

Another occasion my missus went into a pub to buy the drinks as I’d spotted a pike attacking Mallard chicks in the river running through the pub garden. The adult birds were defending the young. By the time she returned, there were a dozen kids around me watching the battle. Terrific stuff. Perhaps my own childlike enthusiasm for nature is infectious to ‘other’ kids .

Should I expect others to be the same? Depends. Myself and Alex (9) stayed at Sandwich bay Obs and Dunge Obs at the weekend after successfully seeing a Beaver on a KWT lead walk near Sandwich on Friday night. At Sandwich obs, the local moth-er, as nice as he was, wouldn’t allow Alex to pull out a single egg box from any of the four massive traps. None of the staff had any time for kids at all. At Dunge, we were able to stick our own trap on and take all the time we needed to ID the moths with some great encouragement and banter from Dave. Very different experiences with Sandwich Bay, despite having wonderful educational facilities, doing nothing to encourage kids at all.

But again, I do appreciate the ‘anti kid’ feeling. Especially as my own son is loud and gobby. Where does he get that from?

Cheers,

Andy.

A friend of mine visits from the UK with his grandchildren,11 and 9 years,they are bird mad and with their young eyes are able to spot birds that I cannot even see.They are courtious and are knowledgeable and are even able to converse with Spanish birders who welcome their questions.This is I think down to the fact that their grandad takes them out a lot in the UK and even their father now is getting into bird photography which is also rubbing off on them.
I also think that if the parents are encouraging in this aspect of life then this will rub off on the children.I know my children grew up in the knowledge that nature is there to enjoy not destroy....Eddy

A friend of mine visits from the UK with his grandchildren,11 and 9 years,they are bird mad and with their young eyes are able to spot birds that I cannot even see.They are courtious and are knowledgeable and are even able to converse with Spanish birders who welcome their questions.This is I think down to the fact that their grandad takes them out a lot in the UK and even their father now is getting into bird photography which is also rubbing off on them.
I also think that if the parents are encouraging in this aspect of life then this will rub off on the children.I know my children grew up in the knowledge that nature is there to enjoy not destroy....Eddy

Hi,

There was a thread about introducing kids to birdwatching some years ago. The best method is to take them along, but not encourage at all. Kids are sort of reverse: if you push them into something, they will grew out of it in puberty. If something is a little hidden from them, they will become fascinated.

About children in reserves: many people don't realize how difficult is to get to 'real' nature with small children. You need a car, carry a bag with food, water and whatever, and think of a route short enough that little legs will not tire. Wildlife management people surely know little about needs of families with children!

jurek said:

Hi,

There was a thread about introducing kids to birdwatching some years ago. The best method is to take them along, but not encourage at all. Kids are sort of reverse: if you push them into something, they will grew out of it in puberty. If something is a little hidden from them, they will become fascinated.

About children in reserves: many people don't realize how difficult is to get to 'real' nature with small children. You need a car, carry a bag with food, water and whatever, and think of a route short enough that little legs will not tire. Wildlife management people surely know little about needs of families with children!

Click to expand...

That's about right. I put my son off birding very quickly courtesy of my impatience and forever pointing things out to him. Moths is his thing as we started together and he empties the trap. At Dungeness at the weekend he befriended the other kids in the power station cottages and as a result there were five of them catching moths around the trap at 10.30pm whilst I sat in the obs with a beer watching footie.

To be fair, I know many birders who got side-tracked in their teens but got back on track afterwards. The trick is to get to them before they turn 10. Then let them enjoy it they way they want to.

The RSPB reserve at Rainham is perfect for families as it has a tea room and a play area and the staff are always prepared to engage.

jurek said:

The best method is to take them along, but not encourage at all. Kids are sort of reverse: if you push them into something, they will grew out of it in puberty. If something is a little hidden from them, they will become fascinated.

Click to expand...

Point very well made as kids get older, entering middle school and so on.
Wife and I "pulled a trick" that my parents "pulled" on myself, primarily because I'm overwhelmed by a large flock of sisters. When my boy turned 12, we had our vacation coming up, and we called the parents of his best friend, inviting him along. That allowing my wife and I to stand back "hands off" as it were, and let him take the initiative. Only opinion that it does indeed, engage.

I try not to generalise about humans too much (often fail) and certainly kids can be everything from hugely excited (sometimes counter-productively excited) to actively offensive.

Best to take them on merit. Its nice when they are interested and I try to make them more interested. The other sort....kill them early: cutting future losses is also a profit.

John

tittletattler said:

That's about right. I put my son off birding very quickly courtesy of my impatience and forever pointing things out to him. Moths is his thing as we started together and he empties the trap. At Dungeness at the weekend he befriended the other kids in the power station cottages and as a result there were five of them catching moths around the trap at 10.30pm whilst I sat in the obs with a beer watching footie.

To be fair, I know many birders who got side-tracked in their teens but got back on track afterwards. The trick is to get to them before they turn 10. Then let them enjoy it they way they want to.

Click to expand...

jurek said:

The best method is to take them along, but not encourage at all. Kids are sort of reverse: if you push them into something, they will grew out of it in puberty. If something is a little hidden from them, they will become fascinated.

Click to expand...

Thanks guys! Good points. The balance between encouraging and pushing is not an easy one in my experience. My son (9) is quite interested and knows many more birds than the average person, but any time I ask him to come along he goes "baa, birdwatching again, leave me alone". Not sure yet where this goes :h?:

I always found it easiest taking the kids to country parks rather then proper nature reserves. They usually found the reserves to be too boring and bored kids don't want to learn anything. Country parks at least can provide other distractions such as ice creams, climbing frames and cold drinks and if they make a noise people don't seem to mind so much.

My parents, who had no real interest in nature often used to take me out to places where I could collect fossils or go pond dipping and didn't even mind ( well not too much ) when any of my live specimens escaped. I think their gentle encouragement worked better than a more hard sell attitude would have. I've tried to adopt the same attitude but the only birds that the grandkids like are angry ones.

James.

Must admit my introduction was fairly gentle, mostly confined to paying respects to a Raven nest on the way up Scafell Pike each May: dramatic scenery and imposing birds, works for most kids!

John