My first Alpha! (1 Viewer)

I guess I would stick with the Nikon, perhaps in the 7x42, it is a superb binocular, the one bin to rule them all.

You have the very telling word 'want' twice in the first few lines of your post. I know a bit about 'want' and for me it doesn't go with 'wait', and the SF won't be appearing for months

I think that I would ask about the objective covers on the SF, they would need to be pretty good to satisfy me in your world.

Good luck with your choice, and best wishes :t:

Check out this thread. http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2795324&postcount=1

Anders

The conventional wisdom, that you should try before you buy, is worth repeating, so I just did.

I suggest you decide on a format (8x32, 8x42, or 10x42) then go somewhere or order from a shop with a good try/exchange policy the top 3 candidates based on your known preferences for ergonomics. If you are really interested in top-end optics, build, and design, limit your choices to Leica, Zeiss, Swarovski and Nikon. If you like 8x be careful about considering 10x, even with a wide FOV model, because DOF is substantially less (For me, that, not magnification or FOV, is the most significant practical difference between 8 and 10x).

If you really are concerned about -30 degrees C focus performance, L is the best (no change, as far as I can tell, even down to -40), but in my experience Z and S also do fine. I don't think you should limit your choice to Leica on the basis of its superior performance here. The others do better w/respect to FOV, brightness, eye-relief, and close focus.

--AP

Recommending any one of the binoculars you`v listed over the others is pretty futile IMHO, you`ll only know which is right for you when you try them, so I`ll repeat AP`s wisdom once more.

I`d try the Trinovid, SLC and Conquest HD as well as the Vortex.

If money was no object for me I would perhaps go for the Nikon EDG 7x42.

Stick with 8x is my opinion.

Although I am still on a honeymoon with my Leica Uvid HDs, and I love the Leica color rendition and view, I DO WISH it was wider.

All good advice you've been given...I might say if you've waited this long it might behoove you to wait for the Zeiss SF (3-4 months hopefully). I was a little sad to hear someone mention a hint of blue to the image (it's a personal pet peeve of mine for the image to be that "cool") but admittedly that was only one viewer and a pre-production model. I think even they came back and said they weren't bothered by it an maybe shouldn't have mentioned it. This might not be noticeable in the production units, and it might not be an issue with you anyway. I feel that makers lean to that side of the spectrum to enhance details in lower light so you "perceive" that the bin is brighter (?) Anyway...maybe a good thing in the Northern Hemisphere!

Leica: waterproof?

HighNorth said:

Hi everyone!

2. Leica Ultravid HD 8x42

Pros:
- Overall excellent reputation for optical quality and sturdiness

Click to expand...

HiHighNorth

If you are still considering the Leica Ultravid you may want to know how it did in AllBinos' endurance test. To sum it up: It performed rather well in most areas, but failed completely in the waterproof test. There was another Leica bin tested, and the result was the same, so it somehow doesn't look like coincidence. Leica eventually replied to the test (you find the reply somewhere on AllBinos' too), but the statement looked rather general to me.

http://www.allbinos.com/18.12-binoc..._8x42_binoculars_Leica_Ultravid_8x42_HD_.html

Some of the other binos you are considering have been tested too, mostly they did quite well.

Elu

Bins are rather personal tools; before you buy it could be worth trying Steiner Discovery 8x44 or 10x44...a review here:
http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/231/cat/9/limit/recent/date/1067107700

Binastro said:

Hi HighNorth,

I doubt that you have shops stocking top binoculars anywhere near you.
So you need to choose remotely.

I spent a week in Hammerfest and a day in Ivalo and I think you need a very rugged binocular that easily copes in -30C.
Leica aren't the flavour of the month but I think some work without grease so may cope well. They used to specify -25C.
I presume the Zeiss SF is also good.

Of course Russian binoculars cope with minus 40 degrees but they don't have the quality you require.

Unfortunately I never got to Kirkenes. Are there 4 local languages?

Good luck with your choice.

Click to expand...

Hi Binastro! Yes, I have heard that the Leica is supposed to be very good in cold temperatures, and the Zeiss too. Swarovski I've hear less stellar things about in this regard...

Here in Kirkenes we do have four languages; Norwegian, Russian, Finnish and Sami. However, in daily life, you are most likely to hear Norwegian and Russian nowadays. We even have street signs in four languages! :t:

As for Russian bins, a friend of mine picked up a Sturman 10x50 porro at the local market for about £50, and I was pleasantly surprised with the quality! I would say it was even a bit brighter than my Nikon Action EX! :smoke: Still not "alpha" quality though!

CharleyBird said:

Bins are rather personal tools; before you buy it could be worth trying Steiner Discovery 8x44 or 10x44...a review here:
http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/231/cat/9/limit/recent/date/1067107700

Click to expand...

Hi CharleyBird!

Thanks for the suggestion!

Steiner makes some excellent binoculars, and I also like how most of their models have winged eyecups. It was actually after trying the Steiner Commander that I found out that I would prefer winged eyecups in a bin!

Steiner still also has the 30-year warranty which Leica recently ditched, which is a big plus in my book! :king:

I am surprised Steiner bins aren't more popular with birders. Is there a reason for this?

La Mer said:

HiHighNorth

If you are still considering the Leica Ultravid you may want to know how it did in AllBinos' endurance test. To sum it up: It performed rather well in most areas, but failed completely in the waterproof test. There was another Leica bin tested, and the result was the same, so it somehow doesn't look like coincidence. Leica eventually replied to the test (you find the reply somewhere on AllBinos' too), but the statement looked rather general to me.

http://www.allbinos.com/18.12-binoc..._8x42_binoculars_Leica_Ultravid_8x42_HD_.html

Some of the other binos you are considering have been tested too, mostly they did quite well.

Elu

Click to expand...

Thanks La Mer! I'll keep that in mind!

HighNorth said:

I am surprised Steiner bins aren't more popular with birders. Is there a reason for this?

Click to expand...

Steiner is apparently the household name for binoculars in Germany, even more so than Nikon, yet we have comparatively few members from Germany posting their observations here.

Steiner is a subsidiary of the pan-global Italian/American arms manufacturer Beretta.

Beretta is the oldest maker of weapons in the world (since 1526). The Beretta Group includes Benelli (Italy), Franchi (Italy), Uberti (Italy), Sako and Tikka (both Finland), Stoeger (Turkey), Laser Devices (USA), and the optics companies Burris (USA) and Steiner (Germany).

Best wishes,

With people knowing a bit about binoculars in Germany, Steiner doesn't have a very good reputation. Mostly due to most bins being of mediocre quality and because some rather weird marketing. The Discovery is supposed to be good though. As for the Leica bins, I wouldn't give much to this test. You find reports about leaky bins from all brands, don't expect any major difference here.

The best advice you got here is just to try the bins you listed. You can't go wrong with any of these, so you can let the gut feeling decide. At this level, it's ergonomics, ease of view, color and brand loyality that usually decides...

Thanks HighNorth.

I am quite pleased that I guessed the four languages correctly.
Do you understand all of them besides English?

I noticed that the Steiner 8x30 rangefinder is advertised as good to minus 40 degrees, so maybe Steiner are worth considering for winter use.

The nearest shop stocking binoculars must be hundreds of km away from you.

I have used Russian binoculars at below minus 30C, fine except for ice forming on my eyes.

I was on a Norwegiian gently sloping plateau in south Norway and asked a local the distance to a petrol station.
I was told 6 miles.
I ran out of petrol as it was 6 Norwegian miles, 60km.
However, I coasted downhill in neutral for many miles, no power steering or power brakes and waited till they opened at 6a.m.
The worst road I ever found was in North Norway where the washboard surface shook the car violently at any speed.
The Austin 1800 land crab survived.
The waveform road was I think due to ice effects.

Good luck with your choice.

Hi Everyone!

Thanks a lot for very useful advice and suggestions!

Rather than replying individually to every post, I will try to answer most of you comments below:

1. I am not in a big hurry to buy an alpha bin, and can easily wait for 6 months or more before I make my choice. The mating season of sea birds starts in April though, so it would be great to have the bins by then. :t:

2. Cold weather performance: I don't know how much birding I will do in -30 centigrade, but it would give me peace of mind to know that I have a bin that would not freeze up on me should I decide to use it such temperatures.

3. Brocknroller: thanks for clearing up my misconception regarding the M7 and rolling ball!

4. x32 bins vs. x42 bins and larger: I am actually becoming more partial to smaller, lighter bins with wider FOV. Something like the Swarovski 8x32 SV is very tempting to me. Someone mentioned the Zeiss 8x32 FL, which could be interesting too. I have also looked at the Leica Ultravid HD in 8x32, which is even more compact.

In any case, I think I would be more likely to bring with me a compact and lightweight 8x32 bin rather than a full size 8x42 bin if I'm going on extended hiking trips and such. As some of the 8x32 alphas seem to be substantially cheaper than the full size bins, I could actually get a pair of each, finances permitting of course!

Also, I would have no problem using a x32 bin during the summer months here in the Arctic (it could actually be an advantage), as we have the Midnight Sun between May and July, and there will be light 24/7. On the other hand, as the light levels fall quickly in October/November, a larger objective bin would perhaps come more into its right.

During the Dark Season, between November and February, I would probably be better served with a pair of large astronomical binoculars or nightvision, rather than a pair of alpha birding bins

5. Some of you recommended going for a 7x bin rather than 8x. Well, I have no problem holding my 8x42 Monarchs steady, and I fear I will miss out on some detail with a 7x. One of the other advantages of a 7x is usually the bigger field of view, but my Monarch 7 already has an impressive FOV (140m at 1000m) which I find quite sufficient. The Zeiss Victory SF also promises to provide a 7x FOV in a 8x bin, but as they say; the proof is in the pudding!

Speaking of which; can we expect the rumored SF 8x32 to have a 150m + FOV with the weight and compactness matching the Swaro 8x32 SV? :king: In that case, I may wait for that, even though it may take years...

6. Yes, I will definitely have to try out the bins before I buy them. Since I live out in the middle of nowhere in a small country, I most likely will have to do it remotely. Luckily, online shops here in Norway have a good return policy (14 days), so I think I will manage just fine in this regard.

Again, thanks for your advice, suggestions and opinions, I really appreciate them! :t:

Binastro said:

Thanks HighNorth.

I am quite pleased that I guessed the four languages correctly.
Do you understand all of them besides English?

I noticed that the Steiner 8x30 rangefinder is advertised as good to minus 40 degrees, so maybe Steiner are worth considering for winter use.

The nearest shop stocking binoculars must be hundreds of km away from you.

I have used Russian binoculars at below minus 30C, fine except for ice forming on my eyes.

I was on a Norwegiian gently sloping plateau in south Norway and asked a local the distance to a petrol station.
I was told 6 miles.
I ran out of petrol as it was 6 Norwegian miles, 60km.
However, I coasted downhill in neutral for many miles, no power steering or power brakes and waited till they opened at 6a.m.
The worst road I ever found was in North Norway where the washboard surface shook the car violently at any speed.
The Austin 1800 land crab survived.
The waveform road was I think due to ice effects.

Good luck with your choice.

Click to expand...

Hi!

I speak Norwegian and Russian, but just a few words of Finnish and Sami. You won't hear much Finnish and Sami in Kirkenes, as the large number of Finns who arrived here in the 1800s are mostly assimilated by now (although their heritage is still visible in family names and such) and the more recent arrivals speak passable English. The Sami are comparatively few, and mostly speak their language among themselves. There used to be a stigma associated with speaking (and being) Sami in Norway, which still endures to some degree unfortunately...

I am surprised you survived our bad roads! :eek!: It is a shame really that the "richest country in the world" cannot build proper roads... The Swedes and Finns are much better than us in this regard.

Nevertheless, I'm sure your Arctic adventure was exciting and memorable regardless of (or perhaps due to) the tribulations you encountered! :king:

. Hi,

In the documentary, The Greatest dog story ever told, about the trip to Nome in Alaska, where there was an outbreak of a very deadly disease, perhaps in the 1920s, maybe diphtheria?
. The medicine I think was made using horses? And had to be driven by dog sleigh just over 1000 km I think in an amazingly short time. The temperatures were around -50°C, with the wind making it feel a lot colder. I don't know what binoculars could cope with that.
The most accomplished Siberian Husky driver was a man called Seppala, I think. The documentary said that he was Norwegian, yet the name is Finnish. Did he perhaps originate from your part of the world?
It is a wonderful story although the man who got all the credit should not have done so and the same with the dog.

In Canada, I understand that the police still use Nikon FM2 film cameras, as these cope with temperatures below -40°, whereas digital cameras don't.
Do you use digital cameras at -30°C? Or do you still use a film camera?

Hi Binastro!

The name Seppala could be Finnish or Sami. There are lots of people with Finnish and Sami heritage in northern Norway.

I personally haven't done much photography in -30C, but I know a couple of people who do northern lights (aurora borealis) photograpy using Nikon and Canon DSLRs. They seem to have no problem getting those cameras to work though.

That said, most consumer electronics would have trouble coping with temperatures down to -20 and -25, let alone -30 and below...

By the way, I just thought of one more consideration for buying an alpha bino: the position of the focusing/diopter wheel.

I like bins with focusing/diopter wheels which are fairly close to the eyecups, so I can more easily use my index finger to focus the bins. I notice some of the latest bins, especially of the open bridge design, have the focus wheel positioned more towards the front end. This could possible make my preferred focusing technique more problematic...

I think all designs part from the idea that the index finger is used to turn the focus wheel. The typical open bridge designs from Swaro or others require to space the index finger a little from the other fingers that are wrapped around the barrels, while the new Zeiss HT or SF reduce this spacing (see this pic here). If this really matters, I don't know, but anyway all designs let you focus with the index finger.
More classical designs with a larger bridge, like Leica Ultravid, Nikon EDG or Swaro SLC require you to place one or more fingers on the bridge while the index is placed on the focus wheel. The Leica Ultravid has a very large focus wheel that lets you use the index and the middle finger alternativly, which is good for quick focussing from close to far. I like the Leica focus (I use the Ultravid), but I imagine that the SF system is also very comfortable.