400mm + Stacked Converters Trial (1 Viewer)

Roy C · May 4, 2007

As promised I had a mess around today in the garden with 400mm f5.6 + 1.4 Canon tc + 2x Teleplus tc. Focal length 1120 mm (inc crop factor = FOV 1792mm). All shots were ISO 800. I estimate the Woody was about 40 metres away but there is still some feather detail. Posible could have been a little better if I had a remote release.

senatore · May 4, 2007

Very good results.especially compared with my efforts of today.

I have the Canon 400 lens and today attached a Kenko teleplus 300 1.4 extender to try out at my local patch.The results were very disappointing I do'nt know where I am going wrong as there was not a sharp shot amongst those I took. Back to the drawing board!!!!!!

Max.

Roy C · May 4, 2007

senatore said:
Very good results.especially compared with my efforts of today.

I have the Canon 400 lens and today attached a Kenko teleplus 300 1.4 extender to try out at my local patch.The results were very disappointing I do'nt know where I am going wrong as there was not a sharp shot amongst those I took. Back to the drawing board!!!!!!

Max.

Should be ok in good light Max - what sort of shutter speed were you getting?. I use ISO 800 when I have the tc attached, even in good light - I can easily handhold with the 1.4 tc.

Boy George · May 4, 2007

Roy C said:
As promised I had a mess around today in the garden with 400mm f5.6 + 1.4 Canon tc + 2x Teleplus tc. Focal length 1120 mm (inc crop factor = FOV 1792mm). All shots were ISO 800. I estimate the Woody was about 40 metres away but there is still some feather detail. Posible could have been a little better if I had a remote release.

Hi Roy,

Staggering results! If I remember correctly your lens does not have IS? You must have used a tripod surely and have you post processed with a Noise Reduction programme(in view of the fact that you were shooting at ISO 800)/sharpened etc? Regardless, the images out of the camera must be good in order to get those results, particularly bearing in mind file size reduction for display here, which always seems to present degraded images to the viewer.

I'm waiting to take delivery of a Kenko Pro 300 1.4 TC to use with my Canon 100-400 IS Zoom à la Keith Reeder and others and if I get anything like their results I'll be well pleased, but stacking 2 TC's is audacious!

Regards

Adrian

Roy C · May 4, 2007

Boy George said:
Hi Roy,

Staggering results! If I remember correctly your lens does not have IS? You must have used a tripod surely and have you post processed with a Noise Reduction programme(in view of the fact that you were shooting at ISO 800)/sharpened etc? Regardless, the images out of the camera must be good in order to get those results, particularly bearing in mind file size reduction for display here, which always seems to present degraded images to the viewer.

I'm waiting to take delivery of a Kenko Pro 300 1.4 TC to use with my Canon 100-400 IS Zoom à la Keith Reeder and others and if I get anything like their results I'll be well pleased, but stacking 2 TC's is audacious!

Regards

Adrian

Hi Adrian, Think what this shows is just how good the Canon 'L' glass is. I did run them through Neat Image but there was very little noise - ISO 800 on the 30D is almost noise free. I am sure will will get good results with your Kenko Pro.

senatore · May 5, 2007

Roy C said:
Should be ok in good light Max - what sort of shutter speed were you getting?. I use ISO 800 when I have the tc attached, even in good light - I can easily handhold with the 1.4 tc.

Hi Roy I was on ISO 400 and it was a dull day.I think the speed was 400.The camera was in the main resting on a hide window so not hand held.

What advice can you give me to improve matters? Should I wait for a bright day,bang up the ISO to get a faster speed.What about the f number?Any advice would be appreciated because so far I'm unimpressed.

Max.

Roy C · May 5, 2007

senatore said:
Hi Roy I was on ISO 400 and it was a dull day.I think the speed was 400.The camera was in the main resting on a hide window so not hand held.

What advice can you give me to improve matters? Should I wait for a bright day,bang up the ISO to get a faster speed.What about the f number?Any advice would be appreciated because so far I'm unimpressed.

Max.

Max, I almost always use the lens wide open or there abouts. For hand holding I look for a speed of 1/1000 or faster which is why I use ISO 800. If you have a support then speeds like this are not needed but a sunny day with good light helps a lot to get the best out of the lens anyway. Are you using AF (by taping the pins) or using manual focus.
If I were you I would put the combo on a tripod on the next decent day with good light and take some test shots using the self timer or a remote release, this should establish if the combo is capable of taking good shots or not.
Just had another thought - are you using a filter on your lens?. If so then do some test with and without the filter. I have a 77mm hoya pro digital filter which I tried on the 400mm f5.6 and it definitely reduces IQ whereas the same filter on my 17-40 f4 lens does not seem to degrade the image.
I have not tried test with a filter and converter but I am guessing that any IQ loss caused by a filter will be magnified by a converter.

senatore · May 6, 2007

Hi Roy thanks for the advice.I do not use a filter and allthough I have taped the pins the AF hunts a lot so the recent pics that were poor were taken on manual.I shall persevere.

Max.

CyberKat · May 6, 2007

Max, you're not alone. I tried to take everyone's advice and use iso 800 when using a 1.4 tamron on my 400mm, but the focusing really hunts too much. By the time it finally confirms focus the bird is gone. :-( I tried both af servo and one shot, cause I thought that when I use af servo I sometimes release the focus button when I think the camera found focus, but later when I review the pic I see that it didn't, so I thought that when I use one shot focus, so that it has to beep and let me know the focus is confirmed, the things will be better... and it did when it managed to focus, but most of the time it just hunts and hunts and... nothing. I tried focusing manually, than pressing the af so that the camera finishes the fine focusing, but when I do that the camera does just the opposite... it messes the entire focus and tries to focus all from scratch. Arghhh! So far I managed to get only few good shots with tcon (one of them is this one) but the bird was like only few meters away... I was hoping when I bought tcon that it will help with birds on a greater distance, the one I can't get so close... oh well...

Roy, the green finch and robin are really great!

Roy C · May 6, 2007

CyberKat said:
Max, you're not alone. I tried to take everyone's advice and use iso 800 when using a 1.4 tamron on my 400mm, but the focusing really hunts too much. By the time it finally confirms focus the bird is gone. :-( I tried both af servo and one shot, cause I thought that when I use af servo I sometimes release the focus button when I think the camera found focus, but later when I review the pic I see that it didn't, so I thought that when I use one shot focus, so that it has to beep and let me know the focus is confirmed, the things will be better... and it did when it managed to focus, but most of the time it just hunts and hunts and... nothing. I tried focusing manually, than pressing the af so that the camera finishes the fine focusing, but when I do that the camera does just the opposite... it messes the entire focus and tries to focus all from scratch. Arghhh! So far I managed to get only few good shots with tcon (one of them is this one) but the bird was like only few meters away... I was hoping when I bought tcon that it will help with birds on a greater distance, the one I can't get so close... oh well...

Roy, the green finch and robin are really great!

This is strange because providing there is good light I do not have many problems with AF when using a 1.4 tc with the pins taped. I almost always use one shot. I use one of two methods if I get some hunting:

1) When hunting starts I release the shutter button and then depress again - very often the AF will lock straight on.

OR

2) Try using full time manual focus in AF mode with your finger still depressing the shutter button until you are roughly in focus and then let AF finish the job.

Sometimes if there is not much contrast AF will become really difficult, I then switch the lens to Manual focus but you can still get a focus confirmation beeb if you have the shutter button depressed - you must focus slowly when near the focus point to obtain the beeb/confirmation.

Manually focusing while handholding the lens with the shutter button depressed is a technique that takes a bit of getting used to but becomes very easy after a while.

Hope this helps and the best of luck.

Sandpiper · May 31, 2007

Hi Roy,

I was so impressed with the results of your stacked TC test I thought I would have a go myself using my 20D and 100-400 IS lens at 800 ISO.

For the Woodpigeon shot I stacked a Sigma 1.4x EX and a Jessops MC 2x TC, used a tripod, IS switched off, manually focused and used a remote release. Range about 25m and image slightly cropped.

The Blackbird was shot using the Jessops 2x TC only, resting the lens on a window sill, IS on, manually focused without remote release. Range 20m into the light and image cropped.

With care and good light this combination shows some potential for those shots normally just out of range.

Roy C · May 31, 2007

Sandpiper said:
Hi Roy,

I was so impressed with the results of your stacked TC test I thought I would have a go myself using my 20D and 100-400 IS lens at 800 ISO.

For the Woodpigeon shot I stacked a Sigma 1.4x EX and a Jessops MC 2x TC, used a tripod, IS switched off, manually focused and used a remote release. Range about 25m and image slightly cropped.

The Blackbird was shot using the Jessops 2x TC only, resting the lens on a window sill, IS on, manually focused without remote release. Range 20m into the light and image cropped.

With care and good light this combination shows some potential for those shots normally just out of range.

Couple of very nice shots 'Sandpiper'. Most people say that using a 2x converter is not worth it because of the degraded IQ but these shots (and hopefully mine too) show that use can get some very usable images even when the converters are stacked.

mike from ebbw · May 31, 2007

I sold my 2x on Ebay.Wish I had kept it now!

gkrpepper · May 31, 2007

hey Mike

Thanks for the info. I think it worked.
Please comment on the hummer I posted

Gunter

gmax · Jun 1, 2007

Very good results Roy, I'm impressed! How far were you from your subjects? What's the right sequence of stacked converters (camera+taped pin Tc1.4x + Tc2x + lens)?

Roy C · Jun 1, 2007

gmax said:
Very good results Roy, I'm impressed! How far were you from your subjects? What's the right sequence of stacked converters (camera+taped pin Tc1.4x + Tc2x + lens)?

Hi Max, The Woody was taken from around 40 metres and the rest from 7-10 metres I guess. I put my 2x next to the camera as it is a old non-reporting type but it should not make any difference because you would not be able to AF with this set-up anyway (f16 I think :h?: )

NickRno77 · Jun 6, 2007

HI Roy, I managed to get out and stack extenders in the Garden at the weekend, the 1D MKIII acquired focus a little better than my 30D. These shots were all monopod mounted. Sorry just common garden birds:'D
BTW, the metering was all over the place with these shots, they were about 1 stop overexposed, I managed to rectify in DPP as I shot RAW.

Taken with:-
Canon EOS1D MKIII, Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS + 1.4x II and 2.0x II Extenders Stacked.

1st Pic Juville Starling
Canon EOS-1D Mark III
Exposure 1/1250 at f/8
Aperture priority
ISO speed ISO 1600

2nd Pic Pigeon
Canon EOS-1D Mark III
Exposure1/1250 at f/10
Aperture priority
ISO 1250

3rd Pic Collared Dove
Canon EOS-1D Mark III
Exposure1/125 at f/7.1
Aperture priority
ISO 400

4th Pic Starling
Canon EOS-1D Mark III
Exposure 1/640 at f/8
Aperture priority
ISO speed ISO 1600

Cheers

gmax · Jun 6, 2007

B

They do look good to me, good job!

Roy C · Jun 6, 2007

NickRno77 said:
HI Roy, I managed to get out and stack extenders in the Garden at the weekend, the 1D MKIII acquired focus a little better than my 30D. These shots were all monopod mounted. Sorry just common garden birds:'D
BTW, the metering was all over the place with these shots, they were about 1 stop overexposed, I managed to rectify in DPP as I shot RAW.

Taken with:-
Canon EOS1D MKIII, Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS + 1.4x II and 2.0x II Extenders Stacked.

Cheers

All the shots are nicely detailed and very clean Nick - great stuff. No sign of noise at all, what ISO were you using? Could you AF with this lot on board - guess f8 should be ok on this camera. I have already seen some great stuff shot at high ISO from the MKIII, very impressive camera.

NickRno77 · Jun 6, 2007

Roy C said:
All the shots are nicely detailed and very clean Nick - great stuff. No sign of noise at all, what ISO were you using? Could you AF with this lot on board - guess f8 should be ok on this camera. I have already seen some great stuff shot at high ISO from the MKIII, very impressive camera.

Hi Roy, I updated my message with the relevant EXIF data, Yes I could AF with this setup, there was a little hunting but I could live with that on stationary shots. The 1st 3 shots were near enough full frame so I wouldn't expect to see much noise, the last shot was about 50% of the full frame.

The pic that I have attached here is a 100% crop, not that sharp really but there was no PP on this one.

Cheers

400mm + Stacked Converters Trial (1 Viewer)

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