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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Purple emperors (1 Viewer)

Steve Babbs

Well-known member
Hi

I haven't seen a purple emperor for years. I know there's several sites in Hill and Twist site guide, but does anyone know which sites have been most productive in recent years. I'm probably going to be near Bentley Station Meadow, Hampshire next weekend, does anyone know how reliable this site is.

Cheers

Steve
 
Steve,

Can't comment on sites in Hants, but were you aware that Emperors are regularly seen in east Herts? (A fair bit closer to home for you...) It's still a bit early in the season for them at the moment - I'm not aware of any in Herts yet.

Let me know if you want any further details.

Cheers,

David

<edited to remove site specific info, in light of Harry's comments below; please PM me for details if interested>
 
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White*Kite said:
I was hoping to see some in the Forest of Dean this summer - does anyone know which sites there would be best for them?

Can I ask that, if anyone does have information where this butterfly can be seen, they communicate with the enquirer by PM. Sites where any scarce species can be seen in any numbers, shouldn't be in the public domain. Sadly there are still commercial collectors who would like such information.

I'm not saying collecters trawl this site for information but it is possible.

Harry
 
I posted a very similar rerquest a week ago! Purp Em is one that's eluded me forever! I've seen a dozen Camberwells and even 5 QOS Frits..... So PLEASE! If anyone knows a PE site in Bucks / Berks or Norfolk, could you pm me? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?
 
Clouseau said:
I posted a very similar rerquest a week ago! Purp Em is one that's eluded me forever! I've seen a dozen Camberwells and even 5 QOS Frits..... So PLEASE! If anyone knows a PE site in Bucks / Berks or Norfolk, could you pm me? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

Ello Clouseau,

I would think your chances of seeing P.E in Norfolk are very slim indeed. There are no recent (post 1972) records for that country in the Millennium Atlas of Butterflies. There are only twelve 10Km records shown north of the Thames.

Most of the records are south and west of London from west Kent across to Hampshire. I would suggest you look there. Check out the map in this Atlas. If you don't have a copy your local Library may have one available.

Harry.
 
harry eales said:
Can I ask that, if anyone does have information where this butterfly can be seen, they communicate with the enquirer by PM. Sites where any scarce species can be seen in any numbers, shouldn't be in the public domain. Sadly there are still commercial collectors who would like such information.

I'm not saying collecters trawl this site for information but it is possible.

Harry

Harry

With the publication of the site guide by Hill and Twist, in 1996 and a more recent edition I would have thought all sites were in the public domain already. I've never heard any suggestion that this guide has caused more collecting. In fact the presence of more observers might reduce the chance of collection. Certainly the EN and the Woodland Trust are open about the presence of rare butterflies on their reserves.

Steve
 
Steve Babbs said:
Harry

With the publication of the site guide by Hill and Twist, in 1996 and a more recent edition I would have thought all sites were in the public domain already. I've never heard any suggestion that this guide has caused more collecting. In fact the presence of more observers might reduce the chance of collection. Certainly the EN and the Woodland Trust are open about the presence of rare butterflies on their reserves.

Steve

Hello Steve,

Sadly, I cannot agree, I believe Hill & Twist have written books on both Butterflies and Dragonflies. All these have done is to publicise certain sites where specific species may be found. I do not think for one minute that publicising any site of any species should be made public. The more people that visit a site, the more damage is caused to that site, it may be unintended, but it happens anyway.

I agree that English Nature and the Woodland Trust and even some Wildlife Trusts have an open too all policy. In my opinion that's a bad thing. My own Wildlife Trust manages several dozen reserves. On one of them, the sign at the entrance openly advertised that The Small Pearl-bordered Fritillary was to be seen. This is very scarce and rapidly declining species in Durham, down to less that half a dozen small fragmented sites. People wandered over the area, trampled down the vegetation in their ignorance, that this butterflies larvae and pupa are to be found at ground level. I have no idea how many larva, pupa and low roosting butterflies they crushed underfoot, but the butterfly is no longer to be found on that site. It had been known to occur there for more than thirty consecutive years previously.

This could be put down to ignorance, carelessness or downright stupidity on the part of the visitors, many of whom, knew nothing about the species or its habitat.

However, I have seen members of Butterfly Conservation do exactly the same thing, on another SPBFrit site in the same county. You might have expected members of this organisation to know better. That was the first and only field trip I have been on, I won't attend another, I was so disgusted at what I witnessed.

Many reserves are fairly small and some don't even have a footpath, even a small number of visitors can do a lot of unintended damage. A friend of mine who owns some land in the valley where I live took a party of ten botanists from a local natural history society over his land pointing out some of the rare plants that occurred there. Amongst these was a very rare Helliborine. These were the only people to have ever been shown this plant.

A few days later he passed the place where this plant grew and was rather annoyed to find that it had been dug up and removed. As his land is posted as private property and there is no footpath or right of way over his land, it is hardly likely that anyone, other than one of those botanists, took it. So much for caring naturalists.

'Birders' only know too well how many Hides get destroyed by fire and how many so called 'Bird Sanctuaries' have 'after hours' visitors who have no interest at all in wildlife and their sole reason for being there, is to cause damage and destruction.

Publicising any wildlife site, places that site and its inhabitants in danger. If visits were organised and regulated as to numbers of people attending it may stave off some damage for some time, but sooner or later it will be damaged to such a degree that the inhabitants either leave or die out.

I'm sorry if I've ranted on a bit, but all my life I have been a conservationist. I am now very reluctant to report finds of scarce or rare species to the various conservation organisations, who's claim, is that they exist to protect these species. Simply because, once it becomes known that a plant, insect or animal exists in a certain area, it's the first toll of the death knell, for that species in that locality.

Harry
 
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Harry

I'm afraid I still strongly disagree but this is probably not the place for a debate on the pros and cons of publicising rare wildlife sites. So I'll change my request: does anyone know which of the already well known sites has been most productive recently? Or can anyone PM with details of other sites.

Any way off to look for White Admirals now, with my new daughter. The joys of paternity leave!

Steve

PS anyone with an interest in wildlife in Suffolk should join the Suffolk Natural History newsgroup through Yahoo groups.
 
Steve Babbs said:
Harry

I'm afraid I still strongly disagree but this is probably not the place for a debate on the pros and cons of publicising rare wildlife sites. So I'll change my request: does anyone know which of the already well known sites has been most productive recently? Or can anyone PM with details of other sites.

Any way off to look for White Admirals now, with my new daughter. The joys of paternity leave!

Steve

PS anyone with an interest in wildlife in Suffolk should join the Suffolk Natural History newsgroup through Yahoo groups.

Haven't been for a year or three myself, now, but I believe the well-known site in Northants is still producing the goods - not too far off the A14, as well, which should be OK for you.

Wide forest roads also mean reduced chances of trampling anything.
 
Steve Babbs said:
Harry

I'm afraid I still strongly disagree but this is probably not the place for a debate on the pros and cons of publicising rare wildlife sites. So I'll change my request: does anyone know which of the already well known sites has been most productive recently? Or can anyone PM with details of other sites.

Any way off to look for White Admirals now, with my new daughter. The joys of paternity leave!

Steve

PS anyone with an interest in wildlife in Suffolk should join the Suffolk Natural History newsgroup through Yahoo groups.

Hello Steve,
I agree it isn't the place to argue the pro's and con's. I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree.

Harry
 
Adey Baker said:
Haven't been for a year or three myself, now, but I believe the well-known site in Northants is still producing the goods - not too far off the A14, as well, which should be OK for you.

Wide forest roads also mean reduced chances of trampling anything.

Adey

Thanks for the gen, but I don't know the site. If you feel it shouldn't be publicised please could you PM me.

Cheers

Steve
 
Thanks to everyone who emailed with sites. I visited 'the well know, Northamptonshire site' and had one land on my leg today, it was later watched feeding on dog c**p.

Didn't make up for having dipped on sooty tern earlier in the day though!

Steve
 
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