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Kowa Demos at Eagle Optics (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Anansi
- Start date
Sorry, I have been really busy. I received a demo par last week, that looked well used, and the right diopter would not focus. The focus knob turned almost too easily. This pair of binos had been run hard and put away wet. I could also see a fair amount of CA in the left barrel. I sent them back. I just received the new pair, which looks like a much more cherry pair. I will compare it to my daughters Minox 8X32 BD (link to Adorama ad on Minox: http://www.adorama.com/MX832.html ).
I will post results/observation in the near future. I also checked out the Cabelas Meopta 8 X 32 HD's. I will give my observations on these too.
Happy Birding and Bino Obsessing!!
I will post results/observation in the near future. I also checked out the Cabelas Meopta 8 X 32 HD's. I will give my observations on these too.
Happy Birding and Bino Obsessing!!
Kowa Prominar 8 x 33
OK:
I finally got to look through a very good Demo pair earlier this week. I was very impressed with them. My observations may ramble a little here and there due to lack of time to organize my thoughts, but here goes:
Two previous weeks I tried a pair of Cabelas Euro (Meopta) 8 x 32 HD, and I will include these in the notes, along with observations on the older pair of Minox 8 x 32 BD's (my daughters).
Size: The Meopta wins on being the most compact and easiest to trudge around the mountains and deserts with. the Minox and Kowa's are pretty similar size wise and fairly close in weight.
Rubber Armor: The Kowa had the best feel, followed by Meopta and the Minox. The casing of the Kowa and Meopta are very easy to handle. The Minox has a smoother and more slippery rubber, still more than adequate, just not as comfortable.
Eye Cups: The eyecups on the Minox twist out until they are fully extended, and are a hard plastic. Not great, but they work. The Kowa has a soft eyecup and the size fits my eye socket perfectly. The Meopta eyecups were too small for me, and hard. I had a difficult time avoiding blackout with these binos. The fit to my face was also not very comfortable when I finally adjusted them properly. Eye relief on all three were adequate for a non-eyeglass viewer.
View:The best view honors were fairly close for the Kowa and Meopta, with the Minox fairly far behind.
Meopta: The color was rich and the slight yellow tone really brought out colors in the sage hillsides. CA was well controlled and in the low or very low level in the center. The distortion was fairly high though, starting around 40%. All in all a very nice view. Powerlines against a light background showed some CA, but not a lot. detail in the center view was very good.
Kowa: This had a more neutral color, higher contrast, and I could see the most detail in the center view. The amount of detail and the center view are wonderful. CA could not be seen in the center. The sweet spot was smaller than the Meopta and similar to the Minox. This was really my only criticism of this binocular. The distortions was much less pronounced and started much further from the center than the Meopta. the Kowa gets the nod for the best view in my opinion.
Minox: the sweet spot was possibly a little bit larger than the Kowa, but really close. The view was far more drab, and tended to be greyer with less color and contrast. Distortion started about the same distance from center as in the Meopta. CA was highest in this bino. When looking at power linnes against a light background the green or purple edge bleeding was easily visible. However even with these poor qualities, I could still get adequate views when the sun was out. At sunset and in dusk, the details were more difficult to sort out, as you were trying to distinguish object details from a view that primarily was different shades of grey.
All in all, the Kowa 8 X 33 is a real winneer. The Meopta would do it for me if the eyecups were just a little bigger and softer.
OK:
I finally got to look through a very good Demo pair earlier this week. I was very impressed with them. My observations may ramble a little here and there due to lack of time to organize my thoughts, but here goes:
Two previous weeks I tried a pair of Cabelas Euro (Meopta) 8 x 32 HD, and I will include these in the notes, along with observations on the older pair of Minox 8 x 32 BD's (my daughters).
Size: The Meopta wins on being the most compact and easiest to trudge around the mountains and deserts with. the Minox and Kowa's are pretty similar size wise and fairly close in weight.
Rubber Armor: The Kowa had the best feel, followed by Meopta and the Minox. The casing of the Kowa and Meopta are very easy to handle. The Minox has a smoother and more slippery rubber, still more than adequate, just not as comfortable.
Eye Cups: The eyecups on the Minox twist out until they are fully extended, and are a hard plastic. Not great, but they work. The Kowa has a soft eyecup and the size fits my eye socket perfectly. The Meopta eyecups were too small for me, and hard. I had a difficult time avoiding blackout with these binos. The fit to my face was also not very comfortable when I finally adjusted them properly. Eye relief on all three were adequate for a non-eyeglass viewer.
View:The best view honors were fairly close for the Kowa and Meopta, with the Minox fairly far behind.
Meopta: The color was rich and the slight yellow tone really brought out colors in the sage hillsides. CA was well controlled and in the low or very low level in the center. The distortion was fairly high though, starting around 40%. All in all a very nice view. Powerlines against a light background showed some CA, but not a lot. detail in the center view was very good.
Kowa: This had a more neutral color, higher contrast, and I could see the most detail in the center view. The amount of detail and the center view are wonderful. CA could not be seen in the center. The sweet spot was smaller than the Meopta and similar to the Minox. This was really my only criticism of this binocular. The distortions was much less pronounced and started much further from the center than the Meopta. the Kowa gets the nod for the best view in my opinion.
Minox: the sweet spot was possibly a little bit larger than the Kowa, but really close. The view was far more drab, and tended to be greyer with less color and contrast. Distortion started about the same distance from center as in the Meopta. CA was highest in this bino. When looking at power linnes against a light background the green or purple edge bleeding was easily visible. However even with these poor qualities, I could still get adequate views when the sun was out. At sunset and in dusk, the details were more difficult to sort out, as you were trying to distinguish object details from a view that primarily was different shades of grey.
All in all, the Kowa 8 X 33 is a real winneer. The Meopta would do it for me if the eyecups were just a little bigger and softer.
Well, after hearing some of the positive comments regarding the 8x33s, I decided to purchase a demo pair of 8.5x44s - these have a much better ER spec (very important to me) and I've always found >40mm to not give me the bright views I like when doing most of my birding (crepuscular hours - though I'm only 24 so maybe that allows my eyes to pupils to dilate to a higher level than some).
I'll report my findings once I have some field time with them - luckily my job allows me to interact with a variety of birders, so I should have the chance to try them toe to toe in field conditions with some of the "true" alphas. I should be receiving them mid-late next week.
Best,
Justin
I'll report my findings once I have some field time with them - luckily my job allows me to interact with a variety of birders, so I should have the chance to try them toe to toe in field conditions with some of the "true" alphas. I should be receiving them mid-late next week.
Best,
Justin
stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
Justin, wow all my kids are older than you. : )
Anyways, I'm really anxious to here your thoughts on these.
I have yet to lay my hands on any of the Genesis binoculars though I have salivated over them since there inception.
Not one vender I have been to has ever carried these.
Bryce...
oetzi
Well-known member
As a very satisfied owner of a 8x33 I congratulate to this purchase. :t:
http://www.outdoor-professionell.de/2013/04/kowa-genesis-8x33-test-fernglas/
Last edited:
Prominar Refund
Sorry about your not getting the Prominars. Eagle Optics still lists the 8 X 33 Prominars. They are a very good binocular, and for $700, they are are a great deal.
Love mine.
Sorry about your not getting the Prominars. Eagle Optics still lists the 8 X 33 Prominars. They are a very good binocular, and for $700, they are are a great deal.
Love mine.
Hi Anansi,
The issue I had was not with EO - apologies to them if it came across that way - but another seller who was selling the demo for even cheaper than them.
I have been talking with EO staff and a few forum members/birders and am now trying to decide between the Kowa Genesis XD 8.5x44 or a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42. When I do make a decision between these two and get some time to do a lot of field testing, I'll make sure to post my reasoning behind my selection process and my impressions from use.
I unfortunately cannot use any 8x32 I've tried aside from the Nikon EDG and Swarovision due to eye relief <17mm.
Justin
Well, I just received my 8.5x44 demos today. In terms of their status as "demo" I cannot find fault - they see nearly pristine to my eyes and hands.
Though I've only done a brief bit of birding with them, I can honestly say "wow". These things are as sharp or sharper than anything I've seen, and I cannot as of yet induce any chromatic aberration. Ergonomically, these are also among the favorites I've handled - very similar to, say, the Leupold Golden Ring series with a very well-balanced heft to them; simply put, they are big, heavy, and fit my hands perfectly. The focus knob is great and eye-relief seems adequate.
Hopefully I get the chance to put some extensive field time on these binos this weekend and can better comment on their optical characteristics.
Justin
Though I've only done a brief bit of birding with them, I can honestly say "wow". These things are as sharp or sharper than anything I've seen, and I cannot as of yet induce any chromatic aberration. Ergonomically, these are also among the favorites I've handled - very similar to, say, the Leupold Golden Ring series with a very well-balanced heft to them; simply put, they are big, heavy, and fit my hands perfectly. The focus knob is great and eye-relief seems adequate.
Hopefully I get the chance to put some extensive field time on these binos this weekend and can better comment on their optical characteristics.
Justin
David in NC
Well-known member
I was very impressed with the ones I handled. VERY IMPRESSED. Glad you like yours.
Thanks David, these really are impressive and I think will earn their stay.
Optically, these Kowa are exceptional; I'm not particularly bothered by CA but it is something I easily notice and, when seen, it does appear to detract from the overall sharpness of an image. I will say that the Kowa handles CA as well as any of the best binos and this along with the overall good quality of the glass and coatings creates an image that's apparent sharpness in the center of field is readily comparable to the best I've seen, which would be the Swarovski SLC-HD. Sharpness at the edges, a relatively unimportant characteristic for me due to an uncorrectable astigmatism, seems quite good and the central sweet spot seems very wide, 70-80pct to my eyes. Oddly enough, I've not really detected rolling-ball/globe effects, something which quickly turned me away from the Swarovision models and that I've also detected in the EDG and Leupold McKinley HD (i.e. the other field-flattened binos I've used) though to a much lesser extent. Color fidelity is perfect or very nearly so; I've read some users report a "cool" bias but I honestly cannot reproduce that under any field or "in vitro" conditions. Brigthness is again exceptional. Control of stray light is one of the other things about which I am very concerned, and I would say these are alpha level in this regard; I could not induce glare or false exit pupils under any normal (i.e. not staring directly into the sun) conditions.
As anyone who has seen my other comments regarding binos could probably guess, build quality and mechanics are two of the main factors in my opinion. In these regards, the Kowa again excels. In many ways, these remind me of a mix between a Vortex Viper HD and a Leupold Golden Ring HD. The Focus Knob is fantastic, perfectly dampened to not have any slack or slop, but responsive and smooth, very much like the Viper. The ergonmics and armor are more akin to the Golden Ring HD, with the more forward bridge and reasonable heft - in regards to weight, these are a pair of binos you will notice around your neck but not in your hands, due to the wonderful balance. The armor is reminiscent of the original Swaro WB EL in that it is firm but forgiving and very tactile. Another nice though maybe not exactly necessary feature for some is the hydrophobic and durability increasing outer lens' coatings which are a boon for those of us who bird in all conditions.
All in all, these binos are more or less exceptional in all regards. I would claim these to be alpha level both optically and mechanically, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers (GET IT, BIRDERS?) as there are two downsides that may prevent these from reaching this status with other users: weight and FoV. Simply put, a 7degrees field of view is less than what is offered by the 8.5x EL - though you must also consider the increased objective size which tend to result in a reduced FoV. Weight, as mentioned above, is high but at the same time perfectly balanced and for those of us with constantly shaking hands, this can actually be beneficial as it dampens this concern. All that said, these would receive my highest recommendation, particularly at their demo price where I believe they distinctly outperform similarly priced binos such as the Conquest HD.
Thanks for reading, I'll be sure to continue updating as I get more side-by-side comparisons in the field.
Happy birding,
Justin
Optically, these Kowa are exceptional; I'm not particularly bothered by CA but it is something I easily notice and, when seen, it does appear to detract from the overall sharpness of an image. I will say that the Kowa handles CA as well as any of the best binos and this along with the overall good quality of the glass and coatings creates an image that's apparent sharpness in the center of field is readily comparable to the best I've seen, which would be the Swarovski SLC-HD. Sharpness at the edges, a relatively unimportant characteristic for me due to an uncorrectable astigmatism, seems quite good and the central sweet spot seems very wide, 70-80pct to my eyes. Oddly enough, I've not really detected rolling-ball/globe effects, something which quickly turned me away from the Swarovision models and that I've also detected in the EDG and Leupold McKinley HD (i.e. the other field-flattened binos I've used) though to a much lesser extent. Color fidelity is perfect or very nearly so; I've read some users report a "cool" bias but I honestly cannot reproduce that under any field or "in vitro" conditions. Brigthness is again exceptional. Control of stray light is one of the other things about which I am very concerned, and I would say these are alpha level in this regard; I could not induce glare or false exit pupils under any normal (i.e. not staring directly into the sun) conditions.
As anyone who has seen my other comments regarding binos could probably guess, build quality and mechanics are two of the main factors in my opinion. In these regards, the Kowa again excels. In many ways, these remind me of a mix between a Vortex Viper HD and a Leupold Golden Ring HD. The Focus Knob is fantastic, perfectly dampened to not have any slack or slop, but responsive and smooth, very much like the Viper. The ergonmics and armor are more akin to the Golden Ring HD, with the more forward bridge and reasonable heft - in regards to weight, these are a pair of binos you will notice around your neck but not in your hands, due to the wonderful balance. The armor is reminiscent of the original Swaro WB EL in that it is firm but forgiving and very tactile. Another nice though maybe not exactly necessary feature for some is the hydrophobic and durability increasing outer lens' coatings which are a boon for those of us who bird in all conditions.
All in all, these binos are more or less exceptional in all regards. I would claim these to be alpha level both optically and mechanically, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers (GET IT, BIRDERS?) as there are two downsides that may prevent these from reaching this status with other users: weight and FoV. Simply put, a 7degrees field of view is less than what is offered by the 8.5x EL - though you must also consider the increased objective size which tend to result in a reduced FoV. Weight, as mentioned above, is high but at the same time perfectly balanced and for those of us with constantly shaking hands, this can actually be beneficial as it dampens this concern. All that said, these would receive my highest recommendation, particularly at their demo price where I believe they distinctly outperform similarly priced binos such as the Conquest HD.
Thanks for reading, I'll be sure to continue updating as I get more side-by-side comparisons in the field.
Happy birding,
Justin
Justin,
Very nice report. I've held the Kowa in the highest regard for a while now and think it matches if not betters the alphas on a number of points. I'd find them too heavy to hang round my neck for long so I'd give the 8.5x a miss but if the 10.5x came along at the right price I'd be sorely tempted for those long range occasions.
Congratulations on an excellent purchase.
David
Very nice report. I've held the Kowa in the highest regard for a while now and think it matches if not betters the alphas on a number of points. I'd find them too heavy to hang round my neck for long so I'd give the 8.5x a miss but if the 10.5x came along at the right price I'd be sorely tempted for those long range occasions.
Congratulations on an excellent purchase.
David
Justin,
I have a 10x33 Prominar, and your comments mirror my thoughts on these quite well. The more I use them, the more they have impressed me. I don't know about the 8x33 version being better than a Conquest HD (the 8x32 Zeiss being a very hard act to follow), but I can tell you that the 10x Kowa is definitely better than the 10x32 Conquest HD.
We should get together some day and compare our bino arsenal, since we live almost within rock-throwing distance from each other......
Phil
I have a 10x33 Prominar, and your comments mirror my thoughts on these quite well. The more I use them, the more they have impressed me. I don't know about the 8x33 version being better than a Conquest HD (the 8x32 Zeiss being a very hard act to follow), but I can tell you that the 10x Kowa is definitely better than the 10x32 Conquest HD.
We should get together some day and compare our bino arsenal, since we live almost within rock-throwing distance from each other......
Phil
stereotruckdriver
Well-known member
Nice, thanks for the info.
Every time I have one in cart I always back away.
I like to visually use a high price binocular before laying down earned money.
Unfortunately no venders around my side of the woods, that's ultimately why I haven't laid my hands on them.
Bryce...
Every time I have one in cart I always back away.
I like to visually use a high price binocular before laying down earned money.
Unfortunately no venders around my side of the woods, that's ultimately why I haven't laid my hands on them.
Bryce...
David: Thanks, your opinion regarding the sharpness of this binocular was what really swayed my opinion; I had read some of the reviews by Holger and others that really got the idea of wanting this bino in my head, but the qualities we look for in binos seem to be similar so your opinion really made a good impression!
Phil: I sure wouldn't mind looking through some, but most of my remaining bino collection is sadly at my permanent home in IN, as I didn't want to bring too many with me to my job down here. I've sold off many of my mid to higher tiered things as of late as well. /: I have not looked through the 8x33 Kowa, and though I do agree that the 8x32 Conquest HD is a very high quality instrument, I think the 8.5x Kowa is preferable, at least to me, as I notice a distinctly brighter and sharper image (though how much of this is due to the configuration as opposed to the glass and coatings, I cannot say). I was very strongly debating between the 8x42 Conquest HD and 8.5x44 Kowa, and I can safely say I do not in any way regret this decision.
Bryce: I was very much like that for awhile, and it actually took me longer than it should've to make this purchase considering the glowing reviews and great price. From everything I can tell, these are alpha quality binoculars. I think the SLC HD and SV EL have them beat in some regards (weight, FoV, edge sharpness) but there is something about the CA free image, color fidelity, and lack of much globe effect despite a relatively flat field that really make this view so easy on the eyes that I do not think I'll ever feel the need to upgrade, at least to anything that is currently available.
Regards,
Justin
Phil: I sure wouldn't mind looking through some, but most of my remaining bino collection is sadly at my permanent home in IN, as I didn't want to bring too many with me to my job down here. I've sold off many of my mid to higher tiered things as of late as well. /: I have not looked through the 8x33 Kowa, and though I do agree that the 8x32 Conquest HD is a very high quality instrument, I think the 8.5x Kowa is preferable, at least to me, as I notice a distinctly brighter and sharper image (though how much of this is due to the configuration as opposed to the glass and coatings, I cannot say). I was very strongly debating between the 8x42 Conquest HD and 8.5x44 Kowa, and I can safely say I do not in any way regret this decision.
Bryce: I was very much like that for awhile, and it actually took me longer than it should've to make this purchase considering the glowing reviews and great price. From everything I can tell, these are alpha quality binoculars. I think the SLC HD and SV EL have them beat in some regards (weight, FoV, edge sharpness) but there is something about the CA free image, color fidelity, and lack of much globe effect despite a relatively flat field that really make this view so easy on the eyes that I do not think I'll ever feel the need to upgrade, at least to anything that is currently available.
Regards,
Justin
