• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Fake 6x24 binoculars (1 Viewer)

Comet v Celestron

Hi Binastro,
...The Comet binoculars I have seen are cheaply priced, moderate optically but not at all bad for the money, I have looked through worse, however, like many low priced Chinese offerings, it is virtually all plastic including the lens retainer rings, is the 6x24 the same ?...

Ben

Recently, for some reason I checked out my upstairs pair of Celestron Nature 8x30 Porros for collimation, and they were out.

Today I was doing an inventory of optics, so I also checked out the downstairs pair of Celestrons: Out too.

As Bill Cook used to say, binoculars are sometimes out without the owner's ever realising: I am that man!

I then, with the discussion of 'Russian pattern' Comet 6x24 binoculars in the present thread in mind, turned with an added interest to a Comet AX11 7x30 that I have not yet given away.

However by the same checks that I applied to the Celestrons--essentially suspend accommodation, and then see if a double image appears--, the Comet was collimated.

Not a scientific comparison, and I don't forget my earlier 'disintegrating' Comet AX11 7x30.

But my experience illustrates that, at the cheap end of the market, as to quality standards, certainly in the matter of assembly, it can be a bit of a roller-coaster: the invariable 'supremacy' of a Western-branded Chinese optical product over a Chinese-branded ditto is not a given.


Stephen
 
Collimation check of two more Celestrons

I've just checked a third Celestron Nature 8x30 Porro that I bought while they were on sale at £33 intending to give it to a friend. Again not collimated. That leaves just a fourth Celestron to check that I have already given away to a relative.

The lesson is that a quick check at the shop is not enough. The eyes accommodate to the double image too readily. And they may continue to accommodate in the same way throughout ownership.

My wake up call eventually came when I pointed an old Noktovist 8x30 MkII that had performed perfectly well as a house binocular at an aircraft, and a double image of the aircraft appeared that I couldn't get rid of.

That lesson luckily only cost me £5. But it came too late for the Celestrons.


Stephen
 
The Celestron 8x30 (6.7x27) was given away, so I cannot check it.
It seemed O.K. at the time.
I tried to buy another sale one but they had sold out.

It depends how much out of alignment they are. Sometimes very small errors are acceptable.

I have sometimes looked through about 20 8x21s and only 3 or 4 were acceptable for one reason or another. I bought the few good ones for about £3 each and left the others.

Maybe they are checked by very unskilled workers or not checked at all.
Or maybe the rejects are sold off cheaply.
Who knows?

Most people have no idea if a binocular is good or not.

With the crazy small binoculars magnifying up to 70x or so, I estimate 2 out of 100 work even reasonably. Yet they are sold in quantity by mail order in the U.K.
 
That is a bit damning, 3 Celestrons all out of alignment. And most of these new Chinese cheap end binoculars are made in a way that makes them almost impossible to work on to rectify it, it seems pot luck if you get a good one or duff one. I have not had a Celestron, but I bought 2 small new cheap porro,s from China a little while back, intending to give to the grandkids. They were all sealed, boxed, but when I checked, of them was miles out, a clear double image, daylight between. I had a go at putting it right but the plastic objective retainer ring just broke when I tried to undo it. I threw that one away and gave the other one to the charity shop, and bought the grandkid's 6x Bushnells. I still have the Comet 7x, alignment is fine with that.
It is often when you first put the binocular to your eyes that small collimation issues are noticed, just a for a split second you see a double image, then it's gone as your eyes adjust.
 
Binastro

Three out of three checked so far sounds, I am afraid, not like just a failure by the factory to inspect, but also a casual disregard by the factory of the need to collimate scrupulously and accurately (or indeed a total failure to collimate at all?) upon assembly.

It's a sad reflection upon standards that even a reputable brand such as Celestron can dispatch three out of three binoculars sampled to retailers out of whack.

It's not as though batch sampling by distributors or final customers is state of the art: according to Moroney the technique of sequential analysis was devised in the USA--and has since been widely adopted--during the course of the 2nd World War.

Stephen
 
Last edited:
Ben

My reply to Binastro, and your reply to me crossed.

You will see that I have therefore edited my reply to Binastro, in order to make it clear that it was a reply to him, not you, by adding 'Binastro' as the addressee.


Stephen
 
Hi Stephen,
I have found that Nikon, Pentax and Olympus are the most reliable source for binoculars around £50 to £60.
Even here, some are slightly out of alignment and in one case badly out, of the ones I have seen.

I understand that Opticron check most if not all their binoculars.

However, a major problem is delivery to the customer. Sometimes the parcels are treated like footballs.

The Revelation 15x70s are great if you get a good one. Apparently these are also checked prior to sending.
There were so many knocked out that the binoculars have spacers between the barrels and other protective measures. But what does one expect for £49. In addition some are multicoated on all air/glass surfaces.

70mm binoculars cost £200 30 years ago.

Does one really expect any prismatic binocular with two objectives, two eyepieces, two sets of prisms plus all the mechanical bits, plus accurate collimation by a skilled optical technician, for £20?

Yet quite good 8x21s cost around £10 to £15.
 
Binastro

Snap! Both as to the reliability of Olympus, Nikon, Pentax and Opticron as brands, and as to the great robustness and reliability of the small compacts of the first three in the £20-30 range (I haven't bought any Opticron compact in that range).

1. Olympus & Nikon: Small size of binoculars seems to be appreciated particularly by women for all purposes, or children (plus the adults who have to carry the binoculars when they get tired of carrying them themselves!) on long walks.

I therefore, now that one cannot buy new Olympus 7x21 PCIII binoculars as family etc presents, buy secondhand discontinued 7x21 compacts, such as the Olympus, or the Nikon 7x21 Sprint III. I guessed from my own ditto bicycle/have always by me binoculars, that they would have come new OK, and mostly survived use OK. And they have invariably--Touch wood!--to date justified my faith.

2. Pentax & Opticron: One of my first binocular purchases was the Pentax 8x21 UCF R for £20 new. It performed excellently for a couple of years, but was dark compared with the Olympus 7x21 (I didn't know enough at the time to factor fully into the comparison a 2.6 versus 3mm exit pupil), so I've passed--For no reason besides irrational prejudice--on Pentax since then.

I had bad luck with one Opticron purchase, but otherwise all good news.

3. Incidentally I am reminded by your post that I had another problem with an Opticron product, but it is so easy to fix oneself, it is just a quibble: a too freely turning diopter adjuster.

However the problem is not confined to the Opticron product. I have had the problem with other binoculars. I suspect that sometimes even the top Japanese suppliers may nod, and use the same specification (? viscosity) grease to lubricate both diopter adjustment and focus screw.


Stephen
 
Last edited:
Ben

My reply to Binastro, and your reply to me crossed.

You will see that I have therefore edited my reply to Binastro, in order to make it clear that it was a reply to him, not you, by adding 'Binastro' as the addressee.


Stephen

Ok, dont worry, I will keep quiet ;)
 
Last edited:
'First review' of Chinese 6x24 binocular

Binastro Bencw

Here's a 'first review' of the Chinese 'Russian model' 6x24 individual focus binocular by smurf.for.mark! He sold one on Ebay on 18 October 2016.

Stephen

--------
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/chinese-c...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Chinese 6x24 independent focus binoculars

'these are a chinese copy of a military binocular bought new recently -- wide angel, light weight/compact with fully anti reflective coated optics/ BaK-4 prisms -- being fairly new (couple of weeks old) condition is excellent and as they came. -- they are stated as being fully multi coated and i can kind of believe it as the coatings have a two tone blue/purple bloom which seems to show little reflection especially on the objectives

they come with everything they came with new including leather case, neck strap and eye piece cover, box.

i bought these new online from china on a whim a couple weeks back just to see what they were like but already having a 6 power binocular that im very happy with didnt really need them. -- these are actually quite good, all metal construction with smooth focus, feel nice in the hand and are actually quite presentable as can be seen in the pictures. -- wide angle views from the over sized oculars with a bright sharp color correct image and collimated -- id say ideal as a second set for lending out to the wife or kids or to keep in the car?'


[END]
 
Thanks Stephen,

I had been curious about these for a little while, mainly wondering if they are a metal body or plastic, this answered that for me.

Ben
 
Ben

Chinese 6x24 binocular

1. I have now managed to find a better review of the Chinese 6x24 binocular. It is by 8x30mark:

cloudynights.com/topic/550791-chinese-copy-russian-6x24-pic-heavy/

2. The other day I bid successfully on Ebay for a pair at a suitably low price for a trial punt, and find them out of the box much as 8x30mark reported his in the review, except that--Touch wood!--I have been lucky, and in my example the objective lenses seem to be located securely in place.

3. To add to 8x30mark's review, I have established the name of the Chinese 6x24 binocular that 8x30mark and I bought, I hope correctly, to be 'Comet AX24 6x24':

https://aoxiang.en.alibaba.com/prod..._russian_binoculars_full_metal_binocular.html

There are three models of the same binocular: the Comet AX24 is described as the 'Russian' model; the AX8 as the 'US Army model'; and the AX19 as the 'Army model'.

4. Interestingly the 1976 Soviet serial number that is inscribed on my Comet AX24 is different to 8x30mark's. His was 762312. Mine is 762297.

It's refreshing to find a Chinese 'repro' binocular that seemingly has a unique serial number.

5. The Field of View of the Komz 6x24 was measured by Fan Tao to be approximately 11.4*.

By comparison, on the above page Aoxiang claim 10.8* for the Comet AX24.

But refreshingly again, the documentation that comes with the binocular modestly only claims 9.4*.

6. By way of a very rough check, I compared the FOV of my Comet AX24 with the claimed 9.5* FOV of a Japanese binocular. The two FOVs seemed to be much the same.

7. Close focus distance is approximately 12ft (3.7m)

8. The documentation that comes with the binocular also claims a Resolution of '<7"', which I take it means that the binocular can resolve objects down to 7 arc seconds apart.

I don't know if this is an implausibly good figure -- or indeed might be a bad figure.

9. I bought the Comet AX24 6x24 for specification--the good Depth of Field, wide Field of View, reasonable Close Focus Distance, low Weight & general Handiness that I thought that I might get from a 6x24--, and hoped for good optics too.

My colour vision is poor, and I am not hot on describing optics.

However 8x30mark said: 'its a real shame [that my pair were faulty] as that aside they would have made a pleasing to use set, the image is bright and sharp in the center 50% of the field of view. they are fully anti reflective coated with a blue tint to the prism faces seen and seem to be multi coated on external lenses (green/blue hue)'

Likewise my first impressions are promising.


Stephen


For people who are interested, the documentation gives the Interpupillary Distance as 56-72mm. The information is omitted from the web page I reference
 
Last edited:
......
8. The documentation that comes with the binocular also claims a Resolution of '<7"', which I take it means that the binocular can resolve objects down to 7 arc seconds apart.

I don't know if this is an implausibly good figure -- or indeed might be a bad figure.

Stephen,

<7" would be a pretty good resolution for an inexpensive 6x24. The Dawes limit for a 24mm objective is 4.8", but 7" is comfortably better than the 2006 ISO 14133-2 standard of 10" for a high quality binocular. The question of course is, how reliable is the documentation??

David

P.S. I see on the Alibaba link the resolution is given as 10 arcseconds. While that is the ISO standard, I would expect to see visible softening at that level.
 
Last edited:
David

1. Many thanks for the helpful information!

2. You caught me just completing a 'field' comparison of the central resolution of the Comet AX24 6x24, in this afternoon's excellent light, with a couple of OK binoculars, a 7x and an 8x.

I don't find a perceptible difference between the three binoculars, but I believe that, as to perceived resolution, due to compression of the image a true comparison would be with a 6x binocular.

And of course I should be using a calibrated target; not a subjective 0K/Not OK criterion using a distant field target -- in my case some regular holes in a chimney stack at circa 100yd (91m), or a Squirrel's drey at c150yd (137m).

3. The 'honesty' of the figure of 9.4* Field of View in the documentation that accompanied the Comet AX24 (I got the same approximate result yesterday from a more thorough comparison with a claimed 9.5* optic) is not only refreshing, but lends credence to the honesty of the figure also of <7" resolution.

That's all I can say.


Stephen Monday 2 January 2017
 
Last edited:
P.S. I see on the Alibaba link the resolution is given as 10 arcseconds. While that is the ISO standard, I would expect to see visible softening at that level.

David

1. As to the figure of resolution, <7* or <10*, I prefer to rely more (!) upon the documentation that is supplied with the binocular.

I didn't see softening, and whereas there are two gross errors in the documentation on the website--the Field of View and the Close focus distance--, the documentation with the binocular seems to be accurate as to the first, and at least is silent as to the second.

2. To consider further the reliability of the documentation on the website, the website supplies the same documentation for the individual focus Comet AX8:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60241149898.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.FKvnIb

as it supplies for the central focus Comet AX24, even though, quite apart from the presence or absence of a central focussing mechanism, the two binoculars have markedly different bodies (Compare the bottom base plate!).

3. If the documentation on the website included the weight, it would give away that the website is indeed using the same documentation willy-nilly for two different binoculars.

But unhelpfully the weight is not included in the documentation!

4. With the weight, incidentally, the fun and games continues, because the documentation with the binocular does include a weight: 0.805kg!

In fact I weigh the binocular to weigh circa 17oz (482g).

So I go on to weigh the binocular case, which I find to weigh circa 11oz (312g). So I confirm that the figure supplied by the documentation with the binocular, unhelpfully for comparative purposes, also comprehends the weight of the binocular case.

5. It's pointless to go on.

Good though to see that Comet continues the good old Soviet tradition of supplying a case that weighs almost as much as the binocular!


Stephen
 
Last edited:
I suspect that the 7 arcseconds is just copying the paperwork supplied with the genuine Soviet binocular.
I can't find my paperwork, but it sounds about right.
 
Happy new year all.

Stephen,
Many thanks for the link and all the information. I had been tempted to buy one out of curiosity to compare with my vintage KOMZ 6X24, the case on the Chinese one looks good quality from the images, but having bought 3 binoculars that I could not resist before Christmas, I will leave it, especially as you have kindly provided a lot of information on them. I must try to discipline myself to get back to reducing my collection, my Daughter visited over Christmas and as much as I love my collection she was seriously un-impressed with how it has overtaken my little house !!
 
I suspect that the 7 arcseconds is just copying the paperwork supplied with the genuine Soviet binocular.
I can't find my paperwork, but it sounds about right.

Binastro

Your paperwork for the Komz 6x24 would be a boon. I could find nothing on the web. The 11.4* FOV seems to track back to some measurements by Fan Tao that I think from a symbol that he used were only approximate.

As for Comet's offer of their Komz 6x24 lookalike with alternatively Komz, US Army, or plain Army cosmetics, I prefer to review my specimen as a Comet AX24 6x24, because it clearly has different, less 'ambitious', internals.

Stephen
 
I must try to discipline myself to get back to reducing my collection, my Daughter visited over Christmas and as much as I love my collection she was seriously un-impressed with how it has overtaken my little house !!

Ben

Snap! With me it is bicycles, with a small contribution from binoculars too. When I fell off my bike, friends cleared tracks through the house for my zimmer frame by throwing three bikes out into the garden.

I wish a Happy New Year to you too! And the iron self-discipline to slim your collection that you seek!

Stephen
 
Last edited:
Ben and Stephen,
The solution is simple.

Get bigger houses.


The 11.5 degrees is about correct for Soviet 6x24.

Happy New Year.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 1 year ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top