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Amethyst Sunbird (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter leon
- Start date
cuckooroller
Registered User
Leon,
This is one for Rasmus. I don't have any good sources for the female morphology of this one.
This is one for Rasmus. I don't have any good sources for the female morphology of this one.
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Leon,
First, the photo is relatively dark, so it is hard to judge. So, we will need some feedback from you...
Females of Amethyst (aka Black) Sunbird always show a pale eye-brow. It does appear very, very indistinct on the photo. This is one of the features to seperate it from female Scarlet-chested. Having said that, the throat-stripes do appear buff, unlike in Scarlet-chested. Also, it appears way to light on the underparts for being female Scarlet-chested. However, Amethyst normally has a yellowish wash to the underparts, so it doesn't really fit what I see on my monitor either. This is a feature that is hard to judge from the photo, were the underparts yellowish or whitish? On my monitor the belly actually appears whitish! What about size? Was it a rather large Sunbird? Otherwise we have to think about the various small species that normally wouldn't be mistaken for the above just by sheer difference in size. I.e. female White-bellied Sunbird etc.
First, the photo is relatively dark, so it is hard to judge. So, we will need some feedback from you...
Females of Amethyst (aka Black) Sunbird always show a pale eye-brow. It does appear very, very indistinct on the photo. This is one of the features to seperate it from female Scarlet-chested. Having said that, the throat-stripes do appear buff, unlike in Scarlet-chested. Also, it appears way to light on the underparts for being female Scarlet-chested. However, Amethyst normally has a yellowish wash to the underparts, so it doesn't really fit what I see on my monitor either. This is a feature that is hard to judge from the photo, were the underparts yellowish or whitish? On my monitor the belly actually appears whitish! What about size? Was it a rather large Sunbird? Otherwise we have to think about the various small species that normally wouldn't be mistaken for the above just by sheer difference in size. I.e. female White-bellied Sunbird etc.
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
On my monitor it has a slight yellowish wash on the underparts...
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Then it is a female Amethyst (aka Black) Sunbird, though the pale eye-brow appears very indistinct...
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cuckooroller
Registered User
Did you guys see how elegantly I threw this thing into poor Rasmus's lap? I wouldn't have known what to do with this one anyway!
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Cheers :'D
Well, I'll manage!
Well, I'll manage!
Rasmus, I've lightened up 3 of the pictures to try and get a view of the light eyebrow. The colours should be true, as I didn't touch them, perhaps a little washed out. Everything says female Amethyst (Black) Sunbird, but I can't find a hint of the pale eyebrow, and I think the throat may be too white. I think you're right with the ID. I can't think of anything else it could be, although It's been six years since my last trip there, so my memory is probably going. Might also have something to do with my age.
Hal
Hal
Attachments
![VrouSun[1].jpg](/data/attachments/11/11955-a6ad3c1e687244be5215f97313c10e44.jpg)
![sun3[1].jpg](/data/attachments/11/11960-4ede8f23317161cec62b8b961cf0d9eb.jpg)
![sun5[1].jpg](/data/attachments/11/11966-3ae61164a813911b36e10cf4b9fee2d4.jpg)
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Hmm...
Just woke up, still having sleepy eyes...
I've been looking at those photos again. They just strike me as WRONG (not at least thanks to the "new photos" by Hal)!!! As far as I remember Amethyst ALWAYS show an eyebrow. Similarly, it's just all over wrong for Scarlet-chested. I will bring forward the "big books" later today, right now I'm off for visiting a friend. Seems I totally forgot one species of a similar size to the above that it may very well be... Marico.
Just woke up, still having sleepy eyes...
I've been looking at those photos again. They just strike me as WRONG (not at least thanks to the "new photos" by Hal)!!! As far as I remember Amethyst ALWAYS show an eyebrow. Similarly, it's just all over wrong for Scarlet-chested. I will bring forward the "big books" later today, right now I'm off for visiting a friend. Seems I totally forgot one species of a similar size to the above that it may very well be... Marico.
david kelly
Drive-by Birder
How about a female White-bellied Sunbird Cynniris talatala (aka White-breasted Sunbird)? The overall plainness of this bird suggests that species to me. Any other female sunbirds in Gauteng with such a long bill would show more streaking on the breast and be yellower on the underparts or be darker on the upperparts.
david kelly said:
Very likely.
I have only been able to identify 3 sunbirds (amoung other birds) that frequent this bottlebrush, the one is the male Amethyst, the other is what I think is the White bellied sunbird. I suppose both female's could have been there (as i understand that the birds are usually in pairs). The reason why I voted for the Amethyst was because the males were in the bush a min before. (these birds must be on steriods as they don't set still and are easaly frightned). I have never seen a red-chested sunbird in my(our) garden (only in durban along the coast) The size of the female appeared slighly smaller than the male. My sasol bird guide does show a brow, but not that distinct.
I have gone through all the pictures. The first image attached is the best shot of the brow. The second image is that of the male white-chested sunbird that also visits the tree.
From what you have told me it seems to be to be an Amethyst (that does not overdo her brow makeup). I have not seen scarlet chesteds here, and there was yellow in the chest - which rules out the white chested.
Obviously I would like to keep the image that was the easiest to identify the bird. Which image would that be?
Attachments
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Scarlet-chested may not be normal in your area, but has been recorded ca. 100 km. from there, not a very long distance to fly! Having said that, just on colouration, that is a species we can easily exclude. Here's a listing of other species that could occur in your area. Several of these may not be regular, but their distribution comes so close, that they could be expected as occasionals:
Malachite Sunbird*
Scarlet-chested Sunbird*
Amethyst Sunbird
Whitebellied Sunbird
Yellow-bellied Sunbird*
Collared Sunbird*
Marico Sunbird* (don't know why I thought of it this morning! Perhaps it was a little to early
)
Greater Doublecollared Sunbird*
Lesser Double-collared Sunbird*
- the species marked with a * are fairly easy to excluded as the bird on the photo.
So, we are left with two species. The following info is from my own observations (a) and various books (b) I have covering these species (I have excluded various guides only covering these species in other countries, as there often is much geographical variation):
1) "Southern African Birds: A Photographic Guide" by I. Sinclair & I. Davidson
2) "SASOL Birds of Southern Africa" by I. Sinclair, P. Hockey & W. Tarboton.
3) "Collins Illustrated Checklist: Birds of Southern Africa" by B.W. Berlo.
4) "The Birds of Africa" vol. 6 by C. H. Fry, S. Keith & E. K. Urban.
5) "Birds of Africa - A Complete Illustrated Field Guide to the Birds South of the Sahara" by I. Sinlair & P. Ryan.
6) "Sunbirds - A Guide to the Sunbirds, Flowerpeckers, Spiderhunters and Sugarbirds of the World" by R. A. Cheke and C. F. Mann.
7) "Roberts Birds of Southern Africa" by G.L. Maclean (a CD-ROM)
Every single female/juv. Amethyst I have seen had a rather distinct eye-brow. All the above books say that an eye-brow always is present in this species; both in the various female and juv. plumages. No matter how hard I look on the first series of photos, it is close to impossible to see any eye-brow, but it could be due to angle+light... The final photo (has it been worked with photo-shop or similar?) has an eyebrow that fits fairly well, is it the same bird as the one depicted in threads 1 & 2? Throat-patch in Amethyst is very much age-dependent. The sub-species of Amethyst Sunbird in Transvaal (thereby incl. Gauteng) is adjuncta. It is generally somewhat paler than nominate (found in the rest of South Africa). Regarding White-bellied: I already mentioned this species in my first thread on this subject, but female Whitebellied is significantly (not just "slightly") smaller than Amethyst, so normally I would consider a mis-id between these two unlikely - of course this depends somewhat on experiance of the observer. Females of the Whitebellied Sunbird are normally white-bellied (!), but they can be rather variable, with some females showing greyish or (rarely) yellowish bellies. BUT, markings on upper breast always indistinct, rather unlike the individuals on the "un-lightened" photos. Bill also strikes me as somewhat heavy for this species, but In could be wrong. Of course there's the tail (t5 & t6) of the female Whitebellied...
The above is complicated even further by the fact that the adults of Amethyst normally moult somewhere in between february and july; i.e. now! Similarly, most imm's start their moult in april and usually isn't completed until after september. Adults of White-bellied has normally finished their moults by now. Finally, I would like to mention something taken from the very extensive (and recommendable) Roberts: "Always look for association with ad mm [=males]"! If you say "males were in the bush a min before" it reveals little. What is ment by association is, that they are actually seen together...
Whatever the ID of the above, I certainly do envy you having a garden visited by (at least) three species of sunbirds! Certainly makes "my" House Sparrows fade somewhat!
*** The last photo in the previous thread shows an obvious male Whitebellied. Absolutely no doubts there!
Malachite Sunbird*
Scarlet-chested Sunbird*
Amethyst Sunbird
Whitebellied Sunbird
Yellow-bellied Sunbird*
Collared Sunbird*
Marico Sunbird* (don't know why I thought of it this morning! Perhaps it was a little to early
)Greater Doublecollared Sunbird*
Lesser Double-collared Sunbird*
- the species marked with a * are fairly easy to excluded as the bird on the photo.
So, we are left with two species. The following info is from my own observations (a) and various books (b) I have covering these species (I have excluded various guides only covering these species in other countries, as there often is much geographical variation):
1) "Southern African Birds: A Photographic Guide" by I. Sinclair & I. Davidson
2) "SASOL Birds of Southern Africa" by I. Sinclair, P. Hockey & W. Tarboton.
3) "Collins Illustrated Checklist: Birds of Southern Africa" by B.W. Berlo.
4) "The Birds of Africa" vol. 6 by C. H. Fry, S. Keith & E. K. Urban.
5) "Birds of Africa - A Complete Illustrated Field Guide to the Birds South of the Sahara" by I. Sinlair & P. Ryan.
6) "Sunbirds - A Guide to the Sunbirds, Flowerpeckers, Spiderhunters and Sugarbirds of the World" by R. A. Cheke and C. F. Mann.
7) "Roberts Birds of Southern Africa" by G.L. Maclean (a CD-ROM)
Every single female/juv. Amethyst I have seen had a rather distinct eye-brow. All the above books say that an eye-brow always is present in this species; both in the various female and juv. plumages. No matter how hard I look on the first series of photos, it is close to impossible to see any eye-brow, but it could be due to angle+light... The final photo (has it been worked with photo-shop or similar?) has an eyebrow that fits fairly well, is it the same bird as the one depicted in threads 1 & 2? Throat-patch in Amethyst is very much age-dependent. The sub-species of Amethyst Sunbird in Transvaal (thereby incl. Gauteng) is adjuncta. It is generally somewhat paler than nominate (found in the rest of South Africa). Regarding White-bellied: I already mentioned this species in my first thread on this subject, but female Whitebellied is significantly (not just "slightly") smaller than Amethyst, so normally I would consider a mis-id between these two unlikely - of course this depends somewhat on experiance of the observer. Females of the Whitebellied Sunbird are normally white-bellied (!), but they can be rather variable, with some females showing greyish or (rarely) yellowish bellies. BUT, markings on upper breast always indistinct, rather unlike the individuals on the "un-lightened" photos. Bill also strikes me as somewhat heavy for this species, but In could be wrong. Of course there's the tail (t5 & t6) of the female Whitebellied...
The above is complicated even further by the fact that the adults of Amethyst normally moult somewhere in between february and july; i.e. now! Similarly, most imm's start their moult in april and usually isn't completed until after september. Adults of White-bellied has normally finished their moults by now. Finally, I would like to mention something taken from the very extensive (and recommendable) Roberts: "Always look for association with ad mm [=males]"! If you say "males were in the bush a min before" it reveals little. What is ment by association is, that they are actually seen together...
Whatever the ID of the above, I certainly do envy you having a garden visited by (at least) three species of sunbirds! Certainly makes "my" House Sparrows fade somewhat!
*** The last photo in the previous thread shows an obvious male Whitebellied. Absolutely no doubts there!
Last edited:
Rasmus Boegh said:Scarlet-chested may not be normal in your area, but has been recorded ca. 100 km. from there, not a very long distance to fly! Having said that, just on colouration, that is a species we can easily exclude. Here's a listing of other species that could occur in your area. Several of these may not be regular, but their distribution comes so close, that they could be expected as occasionals:
Malachite Sunbird*
Scarlet-chested Sunbird*
Amethyst Sunbird
Whitebellied Sunbird
Yellow-bellied Sunbird*
Collared Sunbird*
Marico Sunbird* (don't know why I thought of it this morning! Perhaps it was a little to early
Greater Doublecollared Sunbird*
Lesser Double-collared Sunbird*
- the species marked with a * are fairly easy to excluded as the bird on the photo.
So, we are left with two species. The following info is from my own observations (a) and various books (b) I have covering these species (I have excluded various guides only covering these species in other countries, as there often is much geographical variation):
1) "Southern African Birds: A Photographic Guide" by I. Sinclair & I. Davidson
2) "SASOL Birds of Southern Africa" by I. Sinclair, P. Hockey & W. Tarboton.
3) "Collins Illustrated Checklist: Birds of Southern Africa" by B.W. Berlo.
4) "The Birds of Africa" vol. 6 by C. H. Fry, S. Keith & E. K. Urban.
5) "Birds of Africa - A Complete Illustrated Field Guide to the Birds South of the Sahara" by I. Sinlair & P. Ryan.
6) "Sunbirds - A Guide to the Sunbirds, Flowerpeckers, Spiderhunters and Sugarbirds of the World" by R. A. Cheke and C. F. Mann.
7) "Roberts Birds of Southern Africa" by G.L. Maclean (a CD-ROM)
Every single female/juv. Amethyst I have seen had a rather distinct eye-brow. All the above books say that an eye-brow always is present in this species; both in the various female and juv. plumages. No matter how hard I look on the first series of photos, it is close to impossible to see any eye-brow, but it could be due to angle+light... The final photo (has it been worked with photo-shop or similar?) has an eyebrow that fits fairly well, is it the same bird as the one depicted in threads 1 & 2? Throat-patch in Amethyst is very much age-dependent. The sub-species of Amethyst Sunbird in Transvaal (thereby incl. Gauteng) is adjuncta. It is generally somewhat paler than nominate (found in the rest of South Africa). Regarding White-bellied: I already mentioned this species in my first thread on this subject, but female Whitebellied is significantly (not just "slightly") smaller than Amethyst, so normally I would consider a mis-id between these two unlikely - of course this depends somewhat on experiance of the observer. Females of the Whitebellied Sunbird are normally white-bellied (!), but they can be rather variable, with some females showing greyish or (rarely) yellowish bellies. BUT, markings on upper breast always indistinct, rather unlike the individuals on the "un-lightened" photos. Bill also strikes me as somewhat heavy for this species, but In could be wrong. Of course there's the tail (t5 & t6) of the female Whitebellied...
The above is complicated even further by the fact that the adults of Amethyst normally moult somewhere in between february and july; i.e. now! Similarly, most imm's start their moult in april and usually isn't completed until after september. Adults of White-bellied has normally finished their moults by now. Finally, I would like to mention something taken from the very extensive (and recommendable) Roberts: "Always look for association with ad mm [=males]"! If you say "males were in the bush a min before" it reveals little. What is ment by association is, that they are actually seen together...
Whatever the ID of the above, I certainly do envy you having a garden visited by (at least) three species of sunbirds! Certainly makes "my" House Sparrows fade somewhat!
*** The last photo in the previous thread shows an obvious male Whitebellied. Absolutely no doubts there!
Whow, thats what I call a detailed answer, thank you for the research.
The last post was the same bird as in the first picture. Because of the white wall the pictures are underexposed. All I did was to add some exposure (in C1 REBEL raw conversion prog), and did a USM in paint shop pro. I think the angle of the head towards the camera is slighly different which helps.
Unfortunatly the bottlebrush bloom is disapating, but am i prepared for next time! I usually see the birds as I leave the front door for work. I keep my camera in my car and by the time I have it ready they are gone. I'll be paying carefull attention to the detail.
Well I am happy to have the birds here. They only visit when the plants invite them though. I have been thinking what else to plant to get more of these guys here, especially now that I have seen what birds are possibles !!!.
Thank you again for your effort.
An additional reference I used is "The Complete Book of South African Birds" by Ginn, Mcilleron, Milstein (Cape Town 89). You said the last post is the same bird as the first one, so I say it is a "good" female Ameythyst. Like the way Rasmus put it all down. Have no idea where the eye-brow was in the first pix, or in the ones I brightened up. Will be a good reference thread for the future.
Rasmus, how good is "Sunbirds - A Guide to the Sunbirds, Flowerpeckers, Spiderhunters and Sugarbirds of the World" Don't ever recall seeing a copy of it, or forgot if I did! Over the years I've shelled out for hundreds of books I should never have bought (my local library is happy though). Now I like to get a few recommendations before I spend any more money. I'll check and see if anyone around here has a copy as well.
Hal
Rasmus, how good is "Sunbirds - A Guide to the Sunbirds, Flowerpeckers, Spiderhunters and Sugarbirds of the World" Don't ever recall seeing a copy of it, or forgot if I did! Over the years I've shelled out for hundreds of books I should never have bought (my local library is happy though). Now I like to get a few recommendations before I spend any more money. I'll check and see if anyone around here has a copy as well.
Hal
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
The book on Sunbirds certainly is one of the best family books out there. Having said that, I mostly bought it because of the Asian species it covers; i.e. various Sunbirds & Flowerpeckers. The info regarding the African species is very good aswell, but somewhat behind the GREAT & RECOMMENDABLE (and yes, I know: EXPENSIVE!) vol. 6 of "The Birds of Africa". "Sunbirds - A Guide to the Sunbirds, Flowerpeckers, Spiderhunters and Sugarbirds of the World" also has a tendency of splitting a bit more than perhaps can be considered proven or fair... They also refer to Sugarbirds as members of the Sunbird family. I know the discussion is still going on this matter, but I just find it a bit hard to believe, and have still to see conclusive evidence. Anyways, as said, "Sunbirds - A Guide to the Sunbirds, Flowerpeckers, Spiderhunters and Sugarbirds of the World" is certainly still one of the best family books out there. Worth the money if it's a group of birds you're a fan of. As most of these books, it works much better as a reference at home, than an actual guide when you are standing out there...