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Old Wednesday 23rd November 2016, 19:44   #76
Jim M.
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Sounds like "yes, the C-AF is better than with any previous M4/3 camera, but still not really at the level of a top DSLR, like the Canon 7DII or the Nikon D500". That's a far cry from why Olympus claimed in their advertising before the camera was released which made it sound like the Olympus is running circles around any and every DSLR.
AFAIK, Olympus delivered on all their claims if you read them closely. The review indicates the camera does exceed DSLRs in a number of categories, e.g.:

"All of that happens at a maximum rate of 18 frames per second when you use the electronic shutter. That's seriously fast, even when compared to flagship Canon and Nikon DSLRs, which top out at 14 and 12 fps respectively with continuous autofocus - but they both have flipping mirrors blocking the AF system, while the E-M1 II can use an electronic shutter to reduce blackout."

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/oly...e-m1-mark-ii/9

The review also states "The E-M1 II's autofocus system sets a new benchmark for mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras." So not just the best of m4/3, but of all mirrorless ILC, which includes Fuji, Sony, etc.

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Old Wednesday 23rd November 2016, 19:51   #77
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Close call, but 7d II gets better in value for money.

What is strange is that the old EM1 I gets better points in image quality than the EM1 II. And the EM1 II only is 1% better in total.

My conclusion is that the EM1 II is overpriced.
I wouldn't even consider the 7D II to be a competitor of m4/3. If you don't mind the weight of a Canon setup, then go for it.

As for image quality, Olympus never claimed this would be an image quality upgrade--they were just adding mp and maintaing roughly the same image quality, which is nothing to sneeze at.
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Old Thursday 24th November 2016, 06:30   #78
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Dont know if i posted this but it covers sensor improvement or lack of it,i was surprised that so little gain was from the sensor improvements

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/curi...s-development/
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Old Thursday 24th November 2016, 18:54   #79
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Dpreview really presents nice camera reviews, don't they? I get the impression they really try to give it to you straight; they tell it like it is. But they are not bird photographers.

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Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
Close call, but 7d II gets better in value for money.

What is strange is that the old EM1 I gets better points in image quality than the EM1 II. And the EM1 II only is 1% better in total.

My conclusion is that the EM1 II is overpriced.
I think the scores on dpreview must be partly considered as a score relative to other cameras available the particular time of the review. Even though the 2016 raw/jpeg image quality scores for the E-M1-II fall short of the 2013 image quality scores for the original E-M1, we must remember 3 years have passed. I still think the E-M1 II will capture a tiny bit more detail due to the extra megapixels, and a slight improvement in noise/overall image quality should be easier to see once you downsize the E-M1 II image to the same size as the E-M1 (I think the dpreview comparison tool supports this when you compare side by side in "comp" or "print" mode). So I interpret the roughly 'equal' overall scores of the old and new E-M1 models after 3 years passing this way: Olympus is continuing to compete well today against other current models, even relative to APS-C cameras in the same class.

I completely agree that the E-M1 II is certainly not the best value, but as I said earlier in this thread, Thom Hogan explained some of the reasons why that is what we can expect right now for all "flagship" class cameras. The Nikon D500 was $2K when it was released earlier this year, and the upcoming Panasonic GH5 is expected to also be $2K at release. As Thom said, that is the new "price of enthusiasm," and it is high!

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Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
Sounds like "yes, the C-AF is better than with any previous M4/3 camera, but still not really at the level of a top DSLR, like the Canon 7DII or the Nikon D500". That's a far cry from why Olympus claimed in their advertising before the camera was released which made it sound like the Olympus is running circles around any and every DSLR.

But at least C-AF, it seems, is usable for "fast moving objects" (like birds), so they seem to be getting there, albeit slowly. What remains to be seen though is what experienced bird photographers make of the Olympus in the field, especially people who know the top DSLRs well.

Interesting times, because even though cameras with larger sensors have some clear advantages when it comes to IQ, there's no doubt in my mind that for birdwatchers smaller sensors with their crop factor is an interesting proposition. I for one wouldn't like to carry a 4/500mm all day - in addition to my binoculars, scope and tripod.

Hermann
I'm with Jim: Sure, Olympus hyped the features at the launch, but I don't think they ever tried to say specifically that their C-AF tracking would "run circles around" the best DSLR's. I think they emphasized that the FPS speed was better than competing DSLR's and they claimed that the C-AF is significantly improved and should allow successful tracking. I also agree with Jim that the whole C-AF tracking/BIF thing gets blown out of proportion to how important it really is. Yes, it matters, certainly. For me personally I would even say at this juncture it is very important to me, but at the same time, the vast majority of my bird photos are and will remain birds that are sitting still at the moment of capture.

As a complete system for bird photography, even right now with my original E-M1, I am liking my Olympus system more and more compared to my Nikon system. I cannot say for sure yet, but with all the improvements on the new E-M1 II, it would not surprise me if by the end of next year I decide I am ready to give up the Nikon system and use Olympus exclusively for bird photography. We shall see... Interesting times indeed.

Dave
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Old Thursday 24th November 2016, 19:20   #80
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It can't only be me, that thinks that af tracking abilities of a camera demands great knowledge and time to aquire it - of the photog.

Most, if not all, reviewers may be very good knowing how to get the best of a Canikon af tracking system. But that knowledge does not extend that easy over to another format/camera system - and even so considering that many non-oly shooters complain about their "complicated" menu system...

When known Oly-shooters get their hands on a E-M1 mk2, and test it out (after awhile of familiarization) we'll know if it does what it claims, af tracking wise
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Old Thursday 24th November 2016, 20:02   #81
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Sounds like "yes, the C-AF is better than with any previous M4/3 camera, but still not really at the level of a top DSLR, like the Canon 7DII or the Nikon D500".
I have not read the 7dii review in details, but the DPReview score for "AF and metering accuracy" was actually better for the Oly than for the Canon. Having read how much canon users complain about their own systems not always getting AF right, I am wondering if the inaccuracies mentioned in the oly review really is that far off the standard.

Niels

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Old Thursday 24th November 2016, 22:15   #82
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It can't only be me, that thinks that af tracking abilities of a camera demands great knowledge and time to aquire it - of the photog.

Most, if not all, reviewers may be very good knowing how to get the best of a Canikon af tracking system. But that knowledge does not extend that easy over to another format/camera system - and even so considering that many non-oly shooters complain about their "complicated" menu system...

When known Oly-shooters get their hands on a E-M1 mk2, and test it out (after awhile of familiarization) we'll know if it does what it claims, af tracking wise
Good points, Carlos. It takes a lot of practice and experimenting to learn how to get the most out of any system. That is why part of me would really like to focus on mastering only one system, or at least only one primary system for any one type of photography.

Dave

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Old Friday 25th November 2016, 11:27   #83
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Originally Posted by cango View Post
It can't only be me, that thinks that af tracking abilities of a camera demands great knowledge and time to aquire it - of the photog.

Most, if not all, reviewers may be very good knowing how to get the best of a Canikon af tracking system. But that knowledge does not extend that easy over to another format/camera system - and even so considering that many non-oly shooters complain about their "complicated" menu system...

When known Oly-shooters get their hands on a E-M1 mk2, and test it out (after awhile of familiarization) we'll know if it does what it claims, af tracking wise
When i first got my Panasonic GX8 my in flight shots where not good,i got a bit depressed then i thought you could do it whith a DSLR so just sort yourself out and do it with mirrorless,its like a lot of things a large percentage of achieving something is in your head,think you will not do it and the chances are you will not.
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Old Wednesday 7th December 2016, 16:38   #84
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A test of the C-AF: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PROD....HTM#shooting2
There are weaknesses to the approach relative to what most of us would want to do, but I still want to bring this quote:
Quote:
I feel like any missed shots were more user-error than a camera-related fault.
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Old Wednesday 7th December 2016, 16:49   #85
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From what i could gather on a quick read he was using a f2.8 lens,to me that says nothing,when i first got my GX8 i used it with the 12-35 f2.8 on a car coming towards me between 20-30 mph,i took 14 shots and most where tack sharp and the others not bad.i cant see a f5.6 or f6.3 doing as good.
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Old Wednesday 7th December 2016, 17:24   #86
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When I wrote weakness I was more thinking about a relatively short lens versus those lenses we mostly want to use. However, at least theoretically, the EM1-ii has the possibility of being better at C-AF than your GX8 - I am looking forward to when some real birder gets this camera in the hand.

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Old Saturday 10th December 2016, 01:24   #87
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Imaging resource camera of the year: EM1-ii http://www.imaging-resource.com/news...6-best-overall

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Old Monday 12th December 2016, 16:17   #88
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check the video review on this page (scroll down a little) http://www.43rumors.com/the-new-e-m1...t-time-in-usa/

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Old Thursday 29th December 2016, 19:13   #89
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The rumors site has a link to a writeup by a guy who went from Canon 1D4 to m4/3. He did some sport action with the new EM1-ii: http://www.pattayadays.com/2016/12/s...ympus-e-m1-ii/

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Old Friday 30th December 2016, 10:33   #90
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There are quite a lot of reports of camera lock-ups with the E-M1 II, possibly due to card issues. I think Olympus need to sort this out quickly if it is to be considered seriously as a pro camera.

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Old Friday 30th December 2016, 12:15   #91
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There are quite a lot of reports of camera lock-ups with the E-M1 II, possibly due to card issues. I think Olympus need to sort this out quickly if it is to be considered seriously as a pro camera.

Ron
Where are you seeing these reports? I'm not seeing anything worrisome on the DP Review forums or Amazon, just one on the rumors site, and that seems specific to certain Lexar cards.

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Old Friday 30th December 2016, 12:17   #92
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The rumors site has a link to a writeup by a guy who went from Canon 1D4 to m4/3. He did some sport action with the new EM1-ii: http://www.pattayadays.com/2016/12/s...ympus-e-m1-ii/

Niels
Thanks. His conclusion here:
Conclusion
The E-M1 II is a camera that can reliably be used a sports/action camera, with immediate focus lock and a high keeper rate. Lenses such as the Olympus 40-150mm Pro, the Panasonic 100-400mm and in some cases the Olympus 300mm Pro are all viable lenses for sports use. Inertia and existing sports pro lens collections means it may not unseat established sports cameras such as the Canon 1DX, but it is illuminating to compare specs:
The Canon has 18 megapixels, the Olympus 20 megapixels. The Olympus wins for cropping ability.
The Canon is full frame, the Olympus M43. The Canon wins for IQ and low light.
The Canon does 12 fps RAW, the Olympus does 18fps. Big win for Olympus. (The Canon will do 14fps in JPEG using Live View on the rear screen; good luck with that…).
The Canon body is more than twice the price of the Olympus. Then there are the lens prices….
The Canon and a big lens needs a tripod for any extended use, I can carry the Olympus around all day with no problem.
Plus the new E-M1 does Pro Capture, high fps etc etc.
I know which camera I would rather own; which is fortunate, because I do!
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Old Friday 30th December 2016, 12:34   #93
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Where are you seeing these reports? I'm not seeing anything worrisome on the DP Review forums or Amazon, just one on the rumors site, and that seems specific to certain Lexar cards.
Some reports on this thread on the 'Olympus System Talk UK' site. Seems to arise with some combination of memory card, which of the two card slots is in use and where the card was formatted.

I'm keeping an eye on this while saving hard for a MarkII, which I think might solve some of my problems achieving focus with my E-M10!

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Old Friday 30th December 2016, 14:13   #94
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There seems to be an issue with the 128gb cards (Lexar in particular). Lexar is working on a firmware fix for their card.
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Old Friday 30th December 2016, 14:50   #95
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There seems to be an issue with the 128gb cards (Lexar in particular). Lexar is working on a firmware fix for their card.
Yes, Olympus has said it's a Lexar software problem, not a problem with their firmware.
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Old Monday 23rd January 2017, 15:08   #96
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Jim added a thread about the sensor test: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=338343

There is a new review out: http://www.43rumors.com/olympus-e-m1...camerastoretv/
They love the cAF, less impressed by the tracking function. Interestingly, they also seemed to love the pana G85 cAF, very little difference between the two. I am curious to see a comparison for stills with the GH5 AF!

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Old Wednesday 22nd February 2017, 00:08   #97
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Upon renting the EM-1 Mark II this year with the 40-150 f/2.8 and TC 1.4, I decided to buy. At first the menus almost made me violent, but after reading a PDF version of the manual on an international flight three times, given the C-AF and other capabilities detailed in this thread, this camera body along with certain lens combinations provides a premiere birding / nature system. I love the 40-150 f/2.8 combined w/the TC 1.4, it provides a stunning equivalent 112-420mm, and remarkably does it for under $2,000. Putting together a proper lens array will not cost the price of a new Honda Accord with this system. With similar enthusiasm I regard the potential of the 300mm f/4, but it is back ordered so I can only comment on that with anticipation.

So far B&H has sent me the body, the 12-40 Pro, 40-150 Pro, and the 1.4 TC. A separately ordered 300mm f/4 remains backordered well in to March. With accessories I'll ultimately be in for around $7,000; or, the price of one 7.5 lbs. Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 200-400mm f/4G ED VR II.

Shoot what gives you the images you love!
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Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 13:15   #98
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A new thread about this sensor: Most are missing why the E-M1 mark II sensor is often better than even APSC or FF

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Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 14:08   #99
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Often better?
I really don't see the point in comparing, it's apples and pears.
MFT has its strong point in video, portability, but MFT will never have the same bokeh or low light performance as FF cameras. Different tools with different strengths. Choose the one that fits your current needs.

60 FPS in RAW, wooww, that will be a lot of photos and GB to take care of...I would end up spending my time deleting bad photos rather than taking a few good ones...

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Old Friday 3rd March 2017, 15:16   #100
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Often better?
I really don't see the point in comparing, it's apples and pears.
MFT has its strong point in video, portability, but MFT will never have the same bokeh or low light performance as FF cameras. Different tools with different strengths. Choose the one that fits your current needs.

60 FPS in RAW, wooww, that will be a lot of photos and GB to take care of...I would end up spending my time deleting bad photos rather than taking a few good ones...
The truth
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