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Andean Swift (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter BirdsPeru
- Start date
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
It is indeed a nice photo...
However, it is not an Andean Swift. It would also have been the first record at the wellknown Pantanos de Villa, Lima. It's a swallow. I am fairly sure what species, but would prefer to see it posted on the "Birding Peru" page for confirmation. I have just PM'ed "BirdsPeru" to ask for permition to do so...
However, it is not an Andean Swift. It would also have been the first record at the wellknown Pantanos de Villa, Lima. It's a swallow. I am fairly sure what species, but would prefer to see it posted on the "Birding Peru" page for confirmation. I have just PM'ed "BirdsPeru" to ask for permition to do so...
Edward woodwood
Member
Hi Alejandro
would be nice to see an Andean Swift pic though if anyone has one? One of my favourite birds and a great memory indeed......that and the ceviche and cusquena of course! B
would be nice to see an Andean Swift pic though if anyone has one? One of my favourite birds and a great memory indeed......that and the ceviche and cusquena of course! B
cuckooroller
Registered User
Edward woodwood
Member
nice one Steve
thought you might be able to dig out a pic!
thought you might be able to dig out a pic!
Hi Rasmus,
I have upload two pictures of the Andean Swift (maybe) that I have. Now you mention that the andean swift is not found on the Pantanos de Villa, Well this birds migrate from the highland to the coast from time to time in order to look for food when it is low food on the highlands.
Hope any one can confirm which species is this one in order to correct the information I got or to confirm it.
Here goes one more picture of this bird.
Alejandro
I have upload two pictures of the Andean Swift (maybe) that I have. Now you mention that the andean swift is not found on the Pantanos de Villa, Well this birds migrate from the highland to the coast from time to time in order to look for food when it is low food on the highlands.
Hope any one can confirm which species is this one in order to correct the information I got or to confirm it.
Here goes one more picture of this bird.
Alejandro
Attachments
Edward woodwood
Member
Hi Alejandro
thanks for the pic
looks like a Cliff Swallow to me
thanks for the pic
looks like a Cliff Swallow to me
Swallow or Swift?
Hi Tim,
As far as I know the Cliff Swallow has a white patch on the forehead and a rufous throat, side of head and back that this one does not have as far as I could see when I found this bird.
Maybe I am mistaken this bird description but this are the main features I know about the cliff swallow. If I am wrong please let me know.
Alejandro
Hi Tim,
As far as I know the Cliff Swallow has a white patch on the forehead and a rufous throat, side of head and back that this one does not have as far as I could see when I found this bird.
Maybe I am mistaken this bird description but this are the main features I know about the cliff swallow. If I am wrong please let me know.
Alejandro
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Hi Alejandro,
This second photo leads me in the same directon as before. Most Swifts (incl. Andean) have very weak legs. This means that they usually rest with their bodies touching the surface. Andean Swallow is rather striking, it being shiny white and dark brown (actually, in the field it appears white and black). Also, the pattern is different; i.e. underparts all white (incl. throat), except for the dark flanks and a band on the lower belly (at the legs). It would be the first (and lowest ever) record of Andean Swift at Pantanos de Villa. I am however, 99.9% certain it isn't a swift. I have to agree with Tim on Cliff Swallow, though I cant remember ever having seen one (juv. or ad.) with such a heavily speckled chest. This was what initially lead me to say Purple Martin. Females of this species are indeed speckled below & they often have the collar (though usually broader). However, jizz is wrong, and throat & forehead seems to have slight brownish hue (unlike the grey in female Purple). So, as said before, I agree with Tim: Cliff Swallow. It would be an juv./imm, due to (among others) the relatively pale forehead and throat. I would still like to hear a few comments on the heavily speckled chest, though.
If you want to see Andean Swifts, the place closest to Lima would be on the upper parts of the Santa Eulia road (it is often seen near the White-cheeked Cotinga site).
Yet again; it is indeed a very nice photo, and I am quite sure we have solved the ID now. Some of these ID's can be quite hard, especially as the current field guide to the birds of Peru is of questionable quality. It is very nice to see photos from that region. Brings back many memories of great birding and nice people. I can (and will) highly recommended Peru to anybody :t:
Regards, Rasmus.
This second photo leads me in the same directon as before. Most Swifts (incl. Andean) have very weak legs. This means that they usually rest with their bodies touching the surface. Andean Swallow is rather striking, it being shiny white and dark brown (actually, in the field it appears white and black). Also, the pattern is different; i.e. underparts all white (incl. throat), except for the dark flanks and a band on the lower belly (at the legs). It would be the first (and lowest ever) record of Andean Swift at Pantanos de Villa. I am however, 99.9% certain it isn't a swift. I have to agree with Tim on Cliff Swallow, though I cant remember ever having seen one (juv. or ad.) with such a heavily speckled chest. This was what initially lead me to say Purple Martin. Females of this species are indeed speckled below & they often have the collar (though usually broader). However, jizz is wrong, and throat & forehead seems to have slight brownish hue (unlike the grey in female Purple). So, as said before, I agree with Tim: Cliff Swallow. It would be an juv./imm, due to (among others) the relatively pale forehead and throat. I would still like to hear a few comments on the heavily speckled chest, though.
If you want to see Andean Swifts, the place closest to Lima would be on the upper parts of the Santa Eulia road (it is often seen near the White-cheeked Cotinga site).
Yet again; it is indeed a very nice photo, and I am quite sure we have solved the ID now. Some of these ID's can be quite hard, especially as the current field guide to the birds of Peru is of questionable quality. It is very nice to see photos from that region. Brings back many memories of great birding and nice people. I can (and will) highly recommended Peru to anybody :t:
Regards, Rasmus.
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Edward woodwood
Member
absolutely Rasmus - Peru should be a birders' pilgrimage. The Clements guide is not the easiest to use and has several shortcomings. There is a new guide in the pipeline though by Tom Schulenberg - although you probably know that!
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Tim Allwood said:
Yes, seen a few sample drawings - I am seriously looking forward to seeing the whole book (preferably before my next trip to Peru!).
Tim and Rasmus,
As you mention the book by Clements is really poor and it not to accurate with some birds. Hope this new coming book by Thomas Schulenberg would be better than this.
Rasmus, if you are planing to come to Peru and spend some time in Lima, do not hesitate to contact me and maybe we can meet or visit Pantanos de Villa or any other place around Lima.
Alejandro
As you mention the book by Clements is really poor and it not to accurate with some birds. Hope this new coming book by Thomas Schulenberg would be better than this.
Rasmus, if you are planing to come to Peru and spend some time in Lima, do not hesitate to contact me and maybe we can meet or visit Pantanos de Villa or any other place around Lima.
Alejandro
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
BirdsPeru said:
Thank You...
Having seen the bird on the front of the Clements book - next trip would be to see the one on the backside :t:
Dan drough
Well-known member
After a trawl through Swallows & MArtind - I think it is a Juv Purple Martin - look at the size of the beak.
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Dan drough said:
That was my initial guess aswell, before I saw the second photo. However, relatively narrow (normally broader in female/juv. Purple), but striking collar. Also note the brownish hue of throat & forehead, unlike the normally rather greyish front/throat of ad. female Purple. Similarly the forehead patch seems to end rather abruptly. Bill does indeed look larger than normal ad. Cliff, but this fits well with the juv's I have seen. Actually, the bill is shorter and slightly finer than usual ad. Purple. Purple's bill also have a more distinct curve (esp. on lower mandible). Normally Cliff perches more horizontal (as the individual on the photo), compared to most Progne (incl. Purple). What originally lead me towards Purple on photo #1, was the heavily spekled chest (never seen a Cliff with anything that was this striking). However, I have seen juv. Cliff's that were in that direction, and would assume it is nothing but individual variation. Finally it should be noted, that there are only a few records of Purple Martin from coastal Peru. Only one (??? Somehow seem to remember other observations by Gunnar Engblom, but could be wrong?) of these have been from the wellknown Pantanos de Villa.
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Dan drough
Well-known member
Rasmus
Although I am not an expert on SA birds, and you may never be convinced - how about the feathering on the throat? PM is much plainer than CS Juv. This is what is clearly shown in both pics. Also, I believe speckling on the chest shown in both pics is far to "obvious" (for want of a better word) to be some kind od aberration or variation. Ususally variations are degrees of grey or white.
I don't think jizz helps that much from a bird on a perch such as this. Its angle is more likely due to its relative position on the round bough!
As far as distribution is concerned - is Peru that well covered to discount it for that reason.
My experience in Africa shows many maps can be VERY inaccurate - eg I have seen hundreds of Lesser Crested Terns in Nigeria but the maps limit their range to Morocco!
Look at the 2nd pic - it does show curvature - it isn't the best angle but the curve is there and it definately isn't a little "knub" of a beak like the CS possesses. Look also at the width at the base - it is too wide to be a CS.
Although I am not an expert on SA birds, and you may never be convinced - how about the feathering on the throat? PM is much plainer than CS Juv. This is what is clearly shown in both pics. Also, I believe speckling on the chest shown in both pics is far to "obvious" (for want of a better word) to be some kind od aberration or variation. Ususally variations are degrees of grey or white.
I don't think jizz helps that much from a bird on a perch such as this. Its angle is more likely due to its relative position on the round bough!
As far as distribution is concerned - is Peru that well covered to discount it for that reason.
My experience in Africa shows many maps can be VERY inaccurate - eg I have seen hundreds of Lesser Crested Terns in Nigeria but the maps limit their range to Morocco!
Look at the 2nd pic - it does show curvature - it isn't the best angle but the curve is there and it definately isn't a little "knub" of a beak like the CS possesses. Look also at the width at the base - it is too wide to be a CS.
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
As mentioned before - all in all I am somewhat sure in Cliff Swallow, though that chest indeed puzzled me (as said, my initial ID was Purple). In any case; I'll drop a note to the people on Birding Peru to have a look at these photos (they are also featured on Aves de Lima). I will return later with the the certain ID given...
EDIT & ID: I have already received one answer; it being by Dan Lane (from LSU), one of the serious pro's on Peruvian birds and a person I wouldn't even think about arguing with in that sence! Dan Drough was indeed right in saying Purple Martin :t:. Seems I should have stayed at my initial guess! Dan Lane also mentioned that he had seen this species twice in Pantanos de Villa, so it is presumably not as rare as claimed in "Birds of South America" by Ridgeley and the relatively new "Birds of Peru" by Clements. Finally he confirmed what I remembered vaguely; the recent record(s) at that location by Gunnar Engblom.
I will add another comment if this ID is disputed, though I seriously doubt it!!!
EDIT & ID: I have already received one answer; it being by Dan Lane (from LSU), one of the serious pro's on Peruvian birds and a person I wouldn't even think about arguing with in that sence! Dan Drough was indeed right in saying Purple Martin :t:. Seems I should have stayed at my initial guess! Dan Lane also mentioned that he had seen this species twice in Pantanos de Villa, so it is presumably not as rare as claimed in "Birds of South America" by Ridgeley and the relatively new "Birds of Peru" by Clements. Finally he confirmed what I remembered vaguely; the recent record(s) at that location by Gunnar Engblom.
I will add another comment if this ID is disputed, though I seriously doubt it!!!
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Dan drough
Well-known member
Rasmus - OK 1-0 ! Its good to access to others to confirm difficult IDs.
If you ever go to Peru I'd love to be considered to come along as this isn't an area I am familiar with and now my interest has been elevated.
By the way - what is the best guide at the moment for Peruvian birds. The only specific guide I have for SA is The Birds of Equador (Ridgely & Greenfield) and I am not impressed with it at all - the [plates are real 1950s style). Is there anything in the class of Birds of East Africa by Stevenson / Fanshawe which I rate as the best field guide for a tropics location. (Layout / text / plates etc).
If you ever go to Peru I'd love to be considered to come along as this isn't an area I am familiar with and now my interest has been elevated.
By the way - what is the best guide at the moment for Peruvian birds. The only specific guide I have for SA is The Birds of Equador (Ridgely & Greenfield) and I am not impressed with it at all - the [plates are real 1950s style). Is there anything in the class of Birds of East Africa by Stevenson / Fanshawe which I rate as the best field guide for a tropics location. (Layout / text / plates etc).
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