Help Please (1 Viewer)

Ruby · Nov 18, 2003

Could somebody help id this LBJ please.

On the basis of quantity making up for quality, I have enclosed 2 pics of the same bird - front view and side, which may help.

If cornered, I would probably guess at a Meadow Pipit, but that's just what it would be - a guess!!

Thanks in anticipation..... Ruby

jayhunter · Nov 18, 2003

Hi Ruby what on earth is the bird standing on, it looks like an overgrown artificial ski slope. Sizing the bird is difficult, either a Pipit or Song Thrush.

Andrew Rowlands · Nov 18, 2003

Water Pipit?

Is it on some sort of riverside anti-erosion structure?

Andy.

Nightranger · Nov 18, 2003

Ruby said:
Could somebody help id this LBJ please.

On the basis of quantity making up for quality, I have enclosed 2 pics of the same bird - front view and side, which may help.

If cornered, I would probably guess at a Meadow Pipit, but that's just what it would be - a guess!!

Thanks in anticipation..... Ruby

Going off the throat markings and the pale leg colouration, it may well be a water pipit.

Grousemore · Nov 18, 2003

Meadow Pipit would be my guess.

Andrew Whitehouse · Nov 18, 2003

In the side view it does look a little like a Water Pipit (I'm pretty sure it's not a Meadow Pipit by the way) but in the front view it looks much too dark and streaky underneath. I'm pretty confident it's a Rock Pipit (and the 'habitat' seems to support this), although it maybe one of those funny Scandinavian jobs (race littoralis). The front view looks very much like a Rock Pipit and apart from the apparent (though it seems illusory) whiteness of the underparts on the side view, I can't see anything on that picture that would dissuade me from this either.

Jane Turner · Nov 18, 2003

This is hard. The first pic looks excellent for Water Pipit. It looks clean underneath and had as far as can be determined an unmarked mantle. The outer tail feather doesn't look particularly white, but it might just be hidden. It hasn't got a huge supercillium either, but they are variable, and it doesn't quite look brown enough for Water,(might be photo effect). But still looks OK for Water.

Then it turns round... that breast streaking looks shouts Rock Pipit..... so all in all I'd say Scandinavian Rock Pipit. That is what I so would put my money on. If it called, that would be helpful!

A philosophical point.... I make an assumption that Rock Pipits can get Water Pipit-like Uppers, and that Water pipits don't get Rock Pipit like undersides... that might be incorrect.

Michael Frankis · Nov 18, 2003

I'd agree with Scandinavian (littoralis) race Rock Pipit as the most likely, though Water Pipit is possible.

Michael

Jane Turner · Nov 18, 2003

It looks really leggy too, which I find petrosus Rock pipits don't, but littoralis can do, especially the ones that also look like Water's.

Brian Stone · Nov 18, 2003

Do we know when this was taken? It looks to be a toss-up between littoralis and spinoletta. To my eye it looks a bit extreme for littoralis. I think you can make out a whitish outer tail feather on the first pic, which also shows rather clear wingbars and paler legs (well not black anyway). The legs also appear too pale for littoralis in the second pic and the streaking looks like it might be on a rather clean whitish ground colour.

Depending on where and when I vote for Water Pipit at the moment.

Ruby · Nov 18, 2003

Sorry Guys,

Had to pop out for a couple of hours there...

The Site was the Swale Estruary in North Kent and as Andy says, it was hopping along the concrete reinforcemants of the sea-wall. It was also picking critters out of the cracks in the wall - 'though I guess that this might be typical of any Pipit.

Can't see it in the pics, but the water was lapping just a couple of yards to the left...

Dunno if any of that helps at all.....

Ruby

Ruby · Nov 18, 2003

...sorry again..... it was 2 weeks ago....

Ruby

Ruby · Nov 18, 2003

Oh.. and one other thing that occurred to me...

Earlier on the same day, I was watching (I think) a Rock Pipit and was amazed at how relaxed it was with me being near. I watched it for ages from no more than 15' away.

This bird here was bahaving entirely differently... it kept pace with me at a distance of 30-40 metres. Once I got any closer, it'd just up sticks and move further away.
Don't know if that helps either....

Ruby

Grousemore · Nov 18, 2003

I was at Oare marshes on the Swale Estuary on 28 October and there were several Rock Pipits along with Turnstones on the sea wall behind the visitor's Centre.
(don't ask me how I knew they were Rock Pipits,having thought your pic. looked like a Meadow!)

Ruby · Nov 18, 2003

Hi Trevor,

Isn't it a great place!! Probably my favourite birding spot - just a shame it's about a 50mile drive for me - but usually well worth it.

I think it was the following weekend I was there... also saw several Turnstones (which were also pretty 'tame' and relaxed about having a human looming over them.

I also went looking for the Twite, which had been reported in reasonable numbers several times over the previous few days. Couldn't see any - and wasn't too sure I was looking in the right place.

Have you had any joy with them??

Ruby

Grousemore · Nov 18, 2003

Yes,Ruby,it is a great site;certainly the best I know for Waders in East Kent and well worth a (40 miles for me) drive.
Didn't see any Twite when I was there,but I didn't spend long there before it got dark.

On an aside I've been lucky with Twite recently;2 weeks ago at Holkham in Norfolk I had close views of a flock of around 70 and the following day at Benacre,Suffolk,there were several in a mixed flock of Finches etc.

HH75 · Nov 18, 2003

Hi Ruby,
I'd go for littoralis Rock Pipit,with the proviso that it could be a less than classic Water Pipit,but I don't think so.
Harry H

Ruby · Nov 18, 2003

Thanks all very much for your help... I think general consensus tends to favour Rock Pipit.

As I mentioned earlier, I was watching another Rock Pipit on the same day (probably 80% certain) and together with your help with this bird, I am going to tick 'Rock Pipit' in my little black book... On the basis that one almost certain id, plus another one helped by friends together count as one complete bird!! (howzat for learner birders logic)

Anyway... a life tick for me....

Thanks again..... Ruby :clap:

Brian Stone · Nov 18, 2003

I was under the impression that littoralis is pretty well inseparable from petrosus at this time of year. This one still worries me a bit.

Nightranger · Nov 18, 2003

brianhstone said:
I was under the impression that littoralis is pretty well inseparable from petrosus at this time of year. This one still worries me a bit.

I would go with the masses on this one but I am concerned that the general colour is a little pale for rock pipit. The definition on the facial markings also tends to support rock pipit but does anyone think the legs are generally too pale?

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