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Red-breasted or Red-throated ? (1 Viewer)

Sumit

Well-known member
Hi Folks!
Now that everyone has had a good look at Laurence's brilliant Red-throated (albicilla), here is one from a little further west. My attempt to identify is from what little I know about the distinguishing features between parva and albicilla.

The attached shows a pale orangey base to the bill, a richness of colour and pale tips to the greater coverts, typical of a young parva bird. However, the uppertail-coverts are black and at least as dark as the upper tail. There is little actual contrast between tail feathers and uppertail-coverts, typical of albicilla. So what am I missing?

Cheers!

Sumit
 

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Hi Sumit,

F. albicilla apparently also has a darker bill, particularly very little pale at the base of the lower mandible, whereas F. parva is mostly pale on the lower mandible, so that would support this being F. albicilla.

On wintering range, F. albicilla is mainly eastern India, and F. parva is mainly western India; if taken in or near Kolkata, that would also suggest F. albicilla is the more likely.

Michael
 
Hi Michael,
This is shot in Kolkata, eastern India. Unfortunately, we get both F.parva and F. albicilla in our area, though mostly albicilla. The bird clearly has a pale bill (other shots confirm this) which is uncharacteristic of albicillas I have seen. Is this a juvenile feature?
Sumit
 
Hi Sumit,
A feature recently suggested for albicilla has been the presence of white tips on the inner webs of the tertials creating a pattern likened to that of Pallas's Grasshopper Warbler. This seems to fit your bird and so along with the uppertail covs and colour of the upperparts I'd say yours looks like albicilla. Good point about the bill colour - from what I've read it's always supposed to be all dark in first winter albicilla. When was the photograph taken? Perhaps a pale based bill is a juvenille feature - with the bill becoming all dark at some point during the first autumn or else it just shows bill colour can be variable.
 
Thanks Brendan! The image was shot yesterday. There are 7 -8 of these winter migrants at my local golf club. I'll see if the bill variation is a feature amongst all.
Regards,
Sumit
 
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Don't know if you know Sumit but albicilla has recently been split as a new species by our BOURC. The first ever claim of albicilla in the UK (as far as I'm aware) came from the Scilly Isles in 1999 but was dismissed by some due to the fact that the bill was not all dark - your photo seems to show that bill colour is not necessarily a distinguishing feature, perhaps making the Scilly bird favourite to be the first accepted record in the UK.
 
Hi Brendan,
Was aware of the 1/1/04 split. Think "Taiga Flycatcher" was a name choice at some stage. Would be thrilled if images from the wintering range helps establish a record in UK.
Regards,
Sumit
 
Hi Sumit & Brendan,

Svensson on the bill:
"albicilla whole bill (at least in skins) rather dark, brownish-black, only a little paler brownish at base of lower mandible"

So it doesn't have to be 100% solid black

Michael
 
Hi Michael.
Thanks, the only issue is that this one does have an overall pale bill, not brownish-black. I'll post a couple of close-ups tomorrow. As the bill is an ID parameter, a pale bill on an albicilla may be suspect based on available info. and images.
Regards,
Sumit
 
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