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really strange ducks (1 Viewer)

Joern Lehmhus

Well-known member
Hi all , what do you make of this?

One of these ducks was photographed at the Albufera de Valencia, the other at the Chiemsee, a lake in Bavaria.
 

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Hi Joern,

That first duck looks a little similar to the Ruddy Duck we get here in the US. I would think it is some sort of "stiff-tailed" duck. I do not quite know what to make of the second photo.

Larry
 
Aythyas

Both aythyas I agree but the first one has me beat. There's a lot of juv. ring-neck there but is possibly a ring-neck/tufted hybrid. Second photo is a young ferruginous.
 
Hi all,
Ouch!TWO oddball Aythyas!
The second looks to have a fair bit of Ferruginous Duck in it(may even be a full Ferruginous female/imm,but the head pattern looks to be a bit off?),but the first bird is really strange!Maybe a female-type Tufted x Ring-necked??
Harry H
 
The first duck looks like a juvenile Ring-necked Duck (although it doesn't look quite right, possible hybrid!!), the second bird looks like an imm. female Southern Pochard (Netta erythrophthalma)
 
another pic

Well here is another pic of the first, I didnot make the pics myself, I just participated in the discussion with the photographers-

I d say Aythya is partly correct-but look at the speculum of the first bird...
 

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well for the speculum area of the first bird look at the first pic, here you dont see much of it.

But look at the general appearance of the bird (how do you call that in english? Jizz??? I dont know)

It is really the same one as in the first photograph...
 
Could the first bird be an immature Wood Duck? in the second image of the bird it appears to have the jizz of that species.
I still think the second bird is a Southern Pochard though!!

JJM
 
Obviously both birds are diving duck hybrids, but with what?

The first one shows speculum feathers with white tips, as it is seen on the first pic of this bird.
That wing pattern does not fit to any Aythya, although the bird in general has a body shape and colours resembling an Aythya.
The relatively long tail does not fit for any Aythya.
This , together with the eye ring and the general appearance in the second photograph of this bird led to the conclusion of an intergeneric hybrid Aix-Aythya.

Mandarin does not produce any hybrids with any other duck species (due to chromosomal differences), therefore the Aix parent must be wood duck (hybrids known with most species of Anas and Aythya and also with ducks from other genera).

But which Aythya could be the other parent? The dark appearance lets me think of Tufted duck, but thats just a guess, I dont know.
 
mandarin and hybridisation

Hi Michael,

These are the references I remember at the moment, but there were more

Lawton L. Shurtleff and Christopher Savage (1996) The Wood Duck and the Mandarin (The Northern Wood Ducks). University of California Press .

They state they have observed Mandarin-Wood duck pairs, but eggs failed to develop. If I remember all right they state there is a chromosomal difference.

http://www.gamebird.com/refs.html
are looking for a proof of a hybrid x mandarin wood duck, but up to now there seems to be no proof

Gillham, E., and B. Gillham. 1996. Hybrid Ducks: a contribution toward an inventory.
They give some probable hybrid ducklings mandarin x Laysan duck from one brood, I think it was, but these were deformed and died early. They mention some other presumed, but no proven hybrid with mandarin parentage.
On the other hand they mention and document with photographs hybrids of the following species with wood duck:
redcrested pochard
rosybill
pochard
tufted duck
the wigeons
mallard
shoveler
cinnamon teal
and some more I dont remember at the moment

Konrad Lorenz was working on the ancestry of Anatidae based on their ethology and produced lots of hybrids for that, but he never succeeded in any mandarin hybrid, allthough he got wood duck hybrids with some species (i.e. Chestnut teal and mallard).
Part of his hybridisation work is described in the Book:
Warum aber hat das Vieh diesen Schnabel?
It is the published letters of him and another scientist, oskar Heinroth.

Hope that helpsI have mor4e, but not in my head at the moment, have to look it up.
so perhaps I was a bit strict to say mandarin does not produce any hybrids, but at least no one has ever proven a mandarin hybrid up to now.

Joern
 
Concerning the second bird, I would also suspect an Aix-diving duck Hybrid, but perhaps rather an Aix-Netta than Aix-Aythya, as the head pattern is suggesting something like that and Gilham & Gilham show a photograph of a hybrid Aix sponsa-Netta peposaca with a similar head pattern. The warm reddish colour might suggest ferrugineous duck though, I am really not sure about that one.
In our second bird here the bill shape and the slightly spotted breast point to Aix.

Please give me your comments, and if there are any other photographs of such odd ducks, I would like to see them...
 
And, Michael, I am not sure if my ID is correct, but well, if yes, you neednt stop about it, two half Aythyas make at least one full aythyism ;)
 
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