Leica Prices: 2008 Vs. 2013 (1 Viewer)

Troubador said:

Joe

You couldn't sugar-coat that a little could you?

Lee :smoke:

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LOL,....NOPE,.......but I did go back and edit my post to include a bit more information when I got back home tonight. :king:

BTW,.....I only buy "used" glass anyway,.....but as good as I can find for quality in it's day. Besides the various Zeizz B/GAT*P* and Leitz Trinovids I own, I find most mornings watching the squrrels and birds I feed with a lowly 1960's or so Nippon Kogaku 7x35 J-B7 Nikon Porro.

I find the close focusing (maybe 9-10 feet or so), almost totally flat field to the outer edges, brightness, and steadiness of view (being 7X) extremely relaxing. I own a few of them, and one is so good I can't believe I paid only about $100.00 for it. No internal cleaning needed either. Just perfect.

I also own a much larger mintish Nippon Kogaku 7x50 Mikron (lightweight version ) with really nice hard leather case that I recently won off of a Goodwill auction for just $53.00 shipped! INFLATION be Damned!

The only fix needed was the focusing spindle was "frozen" from decades of nonuse. An hour later I had the focusing parts cleaned up and relubed, and this also is a bright and sharp wonder. Being a much larger glass with wider spread of the objective tubes, it of course does not focus as close as the 7x35 model.

....so for those of you "wallet challenged",.......buy used and let someone else pay the big (inflated) Alpha glass bucks. Buy the right glass and you won't be giving up much. Water sealing and gas purging being the most obvious sownsidein my mind. But then I don't go out in the rain really cold weather, and I carry a plastic bag with me just in case I get caught in the rain!

Some of the oldies but goodies are a "steal" for value recieved for dollars spent, and you won't be nausiated at the pricing!

Cheers.....


Oh,....@ BINASTRO,....ANTHING can be stolen,....even an alpha glass, ....but gold is easy to hide securely. Gold and silver do indeed fluctuate,....but that's a good thing if you wish to trade in and out for profit. In 2009 I "traded" over $1.3 million in gold and netted $88,000.00 in profits as a sideline income. That can buy a lot of new birdie toys! lol There was one day I bought and sold in the same day,....6 kilos gold bars. My purchase check hadn't even been deposited before I sold the bars later for an $8,000+ profit. Fluctuations can be good!

Were the government get out of trying to manipulate it,......the metals price would be much higher but more stable. (silver also to an even greater extent). Due to manipulation in the option and futures "paper" markets, today silver sells for LESS than the all in cost by miners to produce it.

It can't be held back forever though............and I do miss those exciting trading days. I'm sort of retired now and have to watch my spending more, so buying good older used gear is a blessing.

Dialyt said:

In 2008, I paid £799 for a Leica 8x32BR Ultravid. In 2013, the updated model (Leica 8x32HD Ultravid) from the same supplier costs £1419.

I just don't understand how manufacturers can justify this astounding price increase.

In 2008, £799 was a significant amount, but it wasn't unreachable. Now though, even though I'd like a 10x binocular, I won't be getting one, because all the premium binoculars are now priced well above the £1000 mark. How do makers expect to sell products when they price themselves out of the market? I used to be a premium binocular customer, but the binoculars I now have will most likely be the last binoculars I ever purchase. And that's fine: a pair of Zeiss and a pair of Leica is more than enough for one person!

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VERY interesting topic for a thread!

I know several people, all who currently have an "alpha" bin, and who could afford a current top-tier alpha, who have told me they will NEVER replace their current alpha with another top-tier alpha should the current fail or become lost/stolen.

These folks find the top-tier pricing to be an obscene gouge and will go another direction as mid-level bin quality these days is fantastic.

I wonder whether the Big Three are in the process of hanging themselves...???

Is there an emoticon for that? :smoke:

Dialyt said:

In 2008, I paid £799 for a Leica 8x32BR Ultravid. In 2013, the updated model (Leica 8x32HD Ultravid) from the same supplier costs £1419.

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Well, in 2008 I paid 1800 € for my Leica Ultravid HD 8x42. Today it costs still the same, the best prices I found were 1680 €.
As in 2008, the HD Ultravids were already available, I guess the BR could be had with good discounts.

Generally speaking, I am pretty sure that when translating prices in worktime (e.g. how many hours a person with average salary needs to work for buying a binocular), the top binoculars are more affordable today than they were 10 years, 20 years or 30 years ago.

Mac308 said:

VERY interesting topic for a thread!

I know several people, all who currently have an "alpha" bin, and who could afford a current top-tier alpha, who have told me they will NEVER replace their current alpha with another top-tier alpha should the current fail or become lost/stolen.

These folks find the top-tier pricing to be an obscene gouge and will go another direction as mid-level bin quality these days is fantastic.

I wonder whether the Big Three are in the process of hanging themselves...???

Is there an emoticon for that? :smoke:

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Mac,

I bought my first house (a flat, second floor, built in the 60s) in 1978 for 50.000,00 euro's and sold in in the beginning of the 90s for 120.000,00 euro and used the profit to buy a truck needed for my company. At this moment that same flat is now for sale for 249.000,00 euro. Just an old three rooms counting appartment. Speaking of price increase!!!

This year is at its end and will turn out to be the best optics sales year since 1993 and totally because of the A-fabrics. The growth is on that side of the market. Sales in sub-fabrics goes down.
People are willing to pay the price for just that little bit more quality that seperates the A to the sub fabrics. Is that little bit more quality worth let's say 1.000,00 euro? (what is costs extra to make it possible: engineering, study, R&D, manufacturing, QC).
It seems to be so. The market rules!!!
If the outcome was different, I would tell it also.
So what you are saying is not conform we experience down here.

Jan

Do you have any national or international data to support your "A-fabric" comments?

FrankD said:

Do you have any national or international data to support your "A-fabric" comments?

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Nop. But to put it in the right dimension:

We sell anyhow.

If it were different, I'd tell different!

Jan

Binastro said:

.
My Minolta SRT 101 from 1967 in today's money would cost about £1600.

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Hey Binastro
DO you still have an SRT?
A pal of mine had one in the late 1970s as a back-up and it was really neat.

At the time I had a Canon A1 with an AT-1 as back-up. It was a match-needle jobby same as the Minolta and I had as much fun with it as the A1.

Hope you are still having fun with the SRT.

Lee

Mac308 said:

These folks find the top-tier pricing to be an obscene gouge and will go another direction as mid-level bin quality these days is fantastic.

I wonder whether the Big Three are in the process of hanging themselves...???

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Well Mac

Leica and Swaro might be hanging themselves (though I doubt it) but Zeiss is going down a different path with its mid-range Conquest HDs priced 60% below the top line HT and the Terra EDs priced 60% below the Conquest.

Lee

FrankD said:

Do you have any national or international data to support your "A-fabric" comments?

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Frank

Jan will no doubt correct me if I am wrong but I think his comments about alpha manufacturers' sales refer to sales from the retail outlet of which he has first-hand knowledge.

Lee

Troubador said:

Well Mac

Leica and Swaro might be hanging themselves (though I doubt it) but Zeiss is going down a different path with its mid-range Conquest HDs priced 60% below the top line HT and the Terra EDs priced 60% below the Conquest.

Lee

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Leica might be....Swaro has such a following that it will be tough to pull sales from them. Zeiss will survive for sure as many will tag on to the Tierra or Conquest as alternatives and wow, the optical quality in them appears great. Overall quality of the Tierra or Conquest? Not too sure.... only time will tell (quality as well as how well they bite into Leica and Swaro)...

. Dear Troubador,
yes I still have the SRT 101, SRT 303B and all the lenses in almost mint condition even though they were used for years. Unfortunately I have not run a film through a film camera for about four years. But the Minoltas still work fine. they never failed me at any time.
when I was using film about 20 exposures out of 36 were worth printing.
Now using digital about 20 exposures out of 1000 on an SD card are worth printing.
Progress?

I just counted out that I have 49 photographs in glass fronted frames on display. They range up to 24" x 16" in size and are black-and-white, colour or hand tinted. Quite a few of them are 50 to 100 years old. And they have been on display most of this time.
Only three have faded. A 10" x 8" black-and-white print that was not fixed properly. Also 2 colour prints printed by Kodak 45 years ago. A 16" x 12" wedding photo that I took and a 7" x 5". Kodak at that time did not have very good prints as they were using old machinery. Colorama were much better and they have also lasted better.
only about five of the prints are from digital cameras.
there are also hundreds of old photographs in albums.

But where will all the digital images be in 50 to 100 years time? Will there be any humans then?

Binastro said:

.
But where will all the digital images be in 50 to 100 years time? Will there be any humans then?

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Good point...good point... Given that most people never back up their data, they will be lost the first time the computer takes a dive!...Or, even if they back up to a CD, ...disks have a shelf life..

And a Cloud is fine, as long as the Cloud is in business or some virus hasn't come in and wiped out all photos in the cloud or whatever..

I agree....we are in for a future that has no past....

Binastro said:

.

Will there be any humans then?

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Are there any humans now ? o

We still have thousands of 35mm transparancies, almost all of natural history subjects. Keeping them fungus free is a challenge in our old house!

Lee

dalat said:

Well, in 2008 I paid 1800 € for my Leica Ultravid HD 8x42. Today it costs still the same, the best prices I found were 1680 €.
As in 2008, the HD Ultravids were already available, I guess the BR could be had with good discounts.

Generally speaking, I am pretty sure that when translating prices in worktime (e.g. how many hours a person with average salary needs to work for buying a binocular), the top binoculars are more affordable today than they were 10 years, 20 years or 30 years ago.

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Yep,....and I own MANY of them USED oldies but goodies! :t:

David in NC said:

Back in the 90s I paid $500ish for a brand new pair of 8x30 Swarovskis. OH BOY wouldn't I love to get a current pair NIB for that!!! o

And while I agree completely with the OP, I'm still hoping for some extra work in January that'll net me enough for a pair of 7x42 Uvid HDs though, barring a new model replacement announcement at SHOT... :t:

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How about $600 for a tan 2012 Swaro 8x30 CL?

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Binastro said:

. ....
But where will all the digital images be in 50 to 100 years time? Will there be any humans then?

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From your question I see that one-hit wonders Zager and Evans never made it to your side of the pond:

The Year 2525

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brocknroller said:

How about $600 for a tan 2012 Swaro 8x30 CL?

<B>

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sounds like an amazing deal !

Hi Brock,
Yes I have heard that. Nice tune.
But they don't say how much a Leica binocular will cost then.

Troubador said:

Frank

Jan will no doubt correct me if I am wrong but I think his comments about alpha manufacturers' sales refer to sales from the retail outlet of which he has first-hand knowledge.

Lee

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I would be willing to bet that one retail outlet hardly mimics the world economy. Location and clientele can make a huge difference. Some sectors are doing well, others not so much.

perterra said:

I would be willing to bet that one retail outlet hardly mimics the world economy. Location and clientele can make a huge difference. Some sectors are doing well, others not so much.

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You are right PT but the point was that I don't think Jan was saying that. Still there is no denying Swaros success.

Visited a local nature reserve recently to buy bird food and in the walk to the shop, 5 out of 7 bins seen were Swaros.

Contacted a cousin of mine who is a hunter and asked him what rifle scopes and bins he uses. Guess what? A Swaro scope and a Swaro EL....

Lee