Pipit Puzzler (1 Viewer)

Binocularface · Mar 22, 2004

Hi

After successfully seeing the Alpine Swift at Scarborough We went to Filey to look for the Water Pipit that had been reported there a few days previously.
On arrival we could see a largeish pipit feeding on the edge of a pool. My first instinct on this bird was littoralis Rock Pipit. The bird had a very striking pale supercillium.
The more I watched the bird the less convinced (confused) I became. The bird had very bright edges to median coverts and greater coverts (just off white (grey toned rather than buff)). The mantle was brown with subtle dark streaking. The head appeared brownish, not showing any noticable grey tones.The Outer-taile feathers were white. The lower mandible base was showing paler colouration. The legs were quite pale. The breast was quite heavily diffusly streaked dark on a buff background and the buff colouration went all the way to the under-tail coverts!
The bird called frequently- the call was quite similar to that of Meadow Pipit (somewhere between rock and Meadow!).

I have attached some very poor images of the bird and would welcome any thoughts on this bird!

Regards
Tristan

Andrew Whitehouse · Mar 22, 2004

Hi Tristan,

Like you I think I'd be confused by this. I'd generally still favour a littoralis Rock Pipit but really wouldn't like to say for certain (especially with what you say about the call). It looks closer to littoralis than spinoletta though, particularly with that amount of streaking. Have you been looking at pictures of Buff-bellied Pipit by the way?

HH75 · Mar 22, 2004

Hi Tristan,
Something about the bird makes me think that it's a littoralis Rock Pipit as well,though I do know that Water can be very difficult to identify when moulting into summer plumage,when they can be quite 'messy'.
There seem to be greyish tones on the mantle?
Well done on the Alpine Swift,btw!
Harry

Jane Turner · Mar 22, 2004

With that level of streaking on the mantle and breast I'd want to see the 2nd outermost TF to be sure its a Wapit, so I too lean towards Scandi. What were the Filey locals saying about it? I know Jack Whitehead has a similar belief system to me when it comes to Wapit v Scandi Rock!

Darrell Clegg · Mar 22, 2004

Have to agree with the others that litoralis seems the more likely based on the photos. I was a bit concerned by the supercillium, but I think it's well within the variation shown by Scandi Rock Pipit.

Darrell

CJW · Mar 22, 2004

It ain't a Wapit, my money would be on littoralis too.

Binocularface · Mar 22, 2004

Fifebirder said:
Have you been looking at pictures of Buff-bellied Pipit by the way?

I certainly have not considered Buff-bellied Pipit (having enough of a job with littoralis and spinoletta)!

Harry Hussey said:
There seem to be greyish tones on the mantle?

This was certainly not evident in the field, both mantle and nape appeared to be brown- not even with a hint of grey.

Jane Turner said:
What were the Filey locals saying about it? I know Jack Whitehead has a similar belief system to me when it comes to Wapit v Scandi Rock!

There were no other birders present unfortunatly! I am assuming that this is the bird that has been reported as a Water Pipit, though I may be wrong!

Stephen Dunstan · Mar 22, 2004

From the third picture it looks like Scan Rock to me. The Filey website says there has been one at Carr Naze pond - is this where you were Tristan?

Stephen.

Stephen Dunstan · Mar 22, 2004

Whilst we are in the realms of Scan Rock any thought on the attached taken yesterday. Appeared to have bubble gum pink legs, I favour a moderately marked Scan Rock.

Stephen.

Binocularface · Mar 22, 2004

Stephen Dunstan said:
From the third picture it looks like Scan Rock to me. The Filey website says there has been one at Carr Naze pond - is this where you were Tristan?

Yes the bird was at Carr Naze! I guess I should have gone with my initial feeling on the bird- It was the lack of grey tones on the mantle that threw me (that and my incompetence of course

!)

Thanks to everyone for their comments on this bird.

Regards
Tristan

Stephen Dunstan · Mar 23, 2004

Well I realise it wasn't the greatest pic in the world but am I the first person in the history of BF to post a picture of a Rockit and get no comments at all on the ID!

Stephen.

CJW · Mar 23, 2004

OK OK!
It's a bit dirty on the flanks and I would hesitate to put it down as littoralis based on the one photo. I also think we're getting a bit ambitious when we start talking about moderately marked Scandi-Rocks.

Stephen Dunstan · Mar 23, 2004

Chris,

Thank you for indulging me. I am interested to know if petrosus show bubble gum pink legs. Also by moderately marked Scan Rock I mean a bird with a blue-grey tint to the head and an obvious super, going from the Macmillan guide that wouldn't be particularly ambitious though the new Pipits and Wagtails is more circumspect.

Stephen.

CJW · Mar 23, 2004

For what it's worth Stephen, I would want to see white (or whitish) outers, more contrast between greater coverts and mantle, more yellow on the bill base, less dirty/smudgy flank streaking/underparts before I was able to even tentatively suggest anything other than Rock Pipit from this photo.

Stephen Dunstan · Mar 23, 2004

Thanks for your input Chris, I never said it was a straightforward one which is why I was keen to get some comments (after all - easy ones are easy).

Getting pictures of outertail feathers isn't at all easy as I am sure you know. I was at the same site with Tristan a couple of weeks back and we saw a much more clear cut bird with white outer tail feathers, but none of the pics obtained showed this feature at all.

Stephen.

Darrell Clegg · Mar 23, 2004

Stephen,
Here is a pipit with bubblegum pink legs!!

Darrell

Stephen Dunstan · Mar 23, 2004

Darrell,

And what race of Rock Pipit is that then?

I feel reasonably well equipped on Rockits but they still pose as many questions as answers. Your infamous bird above is one of very few I've seen with pink legs, the only other being on a Swedish photograph site.

So to come back to my original question - does petrosus ever show pink legs to this degree? Of course if 'some' show blue heads and white supers then some presumably show pink legs, but how many?

Stephen.

Darrell Clegg · Mar 23, 2004

Stephen Dunstan said:
Darrell,

And what race of Rock Pipit is that then?

Ah - the million dollar question!!!

Darrell

I'd be interested for a link to the Swedish site

Jane Turner · Mar 24, 2004

Stephen... I'd guess at a moderately marked scandi for yours.. but you can't be sure. Never seen a cetrain petrosus with legs like that though.

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