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Yellow legged vs. Lesser black backed Gull, Kent UK (1 Viewer)

P

Pat MS

Well-known member
The mantle colour of this gull makes me think that it is a Yellow-legged Gull but are there other features that would identify it as a Lesser Black Backed Gull? Grateful for any help and especially reasons if you can ID.

The bird was in an estuary and there was at least one other of this type.

Thanks

Pat
 

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I thought it looks good for a 3rd/4th cal yr Yellow-legged - but then I wouldn't trust my gull judging from images....deep bill, shade of grey just right, general heavy structure, not long so winged...
 
red orbital is present in YLG, even more extensive than in LBBG, but this bird is a LBBG; in sunlight YLG would apear much paler.
 
lou salomon said:
...in sunlight YLG would apear much paler.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected Lou!

The grey shade looks right to me for a YLG in sunshine in real life - I'm seeing them all the time at home on the rooves around me. It also looks too light for any LBBG to me.....I just can't get used to the vageries of photos :eat:

...must admit it looks too round crowned for YLG but I can't see any other pointer....?
 
I'd call it an LBB too . . . but my impression is that the two 'species' are indistinguishable except by range (if it's in the UK, it's an LBB, if it's in the Med, it's a YLG)

Won't someone lump them, please! 3:)
 
the background is very dark (seaweed). in such circumstances the sensor of a camera doesn't 'translate' the real grey tone as does our brain when seeing it in real life. i'm used to seeing dozens to hundreds of gull pics per day and can just tell that LBBG regularly appear overlit in sunlight even if the background seems to be correctly exposed. but apart from that there is something i can't even tell (must be a 'jizz' thing) which immediately convinced me this is a LBBG and not a YLG.
 
Nutcracker said:
So how can they be told apart?
Click to expand...

to my eyes mantle tone in YLG is closer to herring gull than to graellsii LBBG.
YLG is a more powerful bird with a stronger bill (all relative if we consider males and females...). tendecially YLGs have slightly longer legs, a fuller breast and on average slightly shorter wings than LBBG. head is larger and more square in YLG, especially in males. during breeding season many YLGs have a triangular extension of the red orbital in front of the eye. but best is if you see a YLG adjacent to HGs and LBBGs - mantle tone is somewhat in between. now you have to exclude hybrids HG x LBBG...
 
lou salomon said:
to my eyes mantle tone in YLG is closer to herring gull than to graellsii LBBG.
YLG is a more powerful bird with a stronger bill (all relative if we consider males and females...). tendecially YLGs have slightly longer legs, a fuller breast and on average slightly shorter wings than LBBG. head is larger and more square in YLG, especially in males. during breeding season many YLGs have a triangular extension of the red orbital in front of the eye. but best is if you see a YLG adjacent to HGs and LBBGs - mantle tone is somewhat in between. now you have to exclude hybrids HG x LBBG...
Click to expand...

Thanks! Sounds a bit complicated for me :-O

But the claim by some that they can be distinguished by wingtip pattern is wrong?

Edit: what's the ratio of numbers of HG x LBB hybrids, to the number of YLGs? I get the impression it's about 10:1 - certainly that's what the county records committee almost always decide what they are (hybrids)
 
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lou salomon said:
during breeding season many YLGs have a triangular extension of the red orbital in front of the eye.
Click to expand...

Here's a couple of males from known pairs during a survey in Lagos town in the Algarve taken in early July.
 

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