Sticky Focus Action on 12x50 (1 Viewer)

In 2006 I posted here that I'd purchased the 12x50 and complained that the focus ring action was sticky. One response was that it would loosen up with usage. Now eight years later it is just as sticky as when I bought it. I've been thinking of sending them in to the repair shop in New Jersey to see if they can make the action smoother but have read a number of horror stories about that facility regarding repair time and cost. Wonder if anyone has recent experience with them.

Recent, not exactly. But about 2 years ago I sent my bought used 12x50 BN in to NJ to fix a slipping diopter adjustment. I found the service old fashioned and professional. I called, and a businesslike lady listened to my problem and said to send it in with a note describing the service desired, and gave a precise timetable of events that would happen. I adopted an attitude of obedience and subservience to the marque of the red dot. A week later, I got a letter with a carbon copied form, estimating a cost of $150 for the repair, and requiring my signature to authorize it. I complied. Two weeks later, as she had said, the binocular arrived, problem solved. The repairperson was named, and his name was Jesus. Hey-soos, ya know. Good man, Jesus.

I also have a 10x50 Ultravid with a sticky focuser, also bought used. Loosen up with wear?--these things are so well made, wear will never be an issue! I had it out today and the handling and contrast are to write home about.

I will if you will. (My main fear is they won't do anything because they think they're supposed to be like that! (Leica doesn't know much about binoculars, as many threads here will prove.)) We can then contribute to the "chamber of horrors" of Leica service tales.

Ron

Out of curiosity?

Is there any reason not to lube it? I have done this on various older binoculars especially on focus mechanisms. One in particular that benefited greatly was the used Bushnell 6X25 custom compact. The focus was too stiff for my tastes. You could move it OK with one strong finger but what use is that for serious birding/viewing? It increases focus time and reduces focus accuracy to the extent an instrument can be rendered practically unuseable. At the least, its a formula for aggravation.

So it would seem to me your best options are carefully try to lube it yourself or you could send it back to the manufacturer or you could send it to an independent repair place. The manufacturer may fix it better in terms of less cost to you, but it may take them longer than an independent due to backlog. Then again.. maybe not and the independent may be more backlogged or maybe not have specific knowledge of "your" model binoculars. There's the possibility this person might do more harm than good.

If you decide to try and lube it carefully yourself, I recommend you use a dry moly type lube. This is a more modern type of lube which is very viscous and very effective. In the case of a binocular focuser or hinge, to be used in small quantities. It's basically a very viscous water like lube that goes into tight spaces via a water-like solvent carrier. It readily goes in and it coats the pores of the individual contact surfaces. The solvent evaporates and leaves behind a coating of dry moly which is one of the best lubricating substances known to man. The surfaces are left coated at the microscopic level. Its a barrier lube. Meaning it forms a barrier on the contact surfaces which can withstand extreme pressure and won't let surfaces wear on each other. Unlike conventional wet film lubes, lubrication is not lost when the lube dries. It stays in place and continues to lube. Best would be to apply via a dropper type applicator which can be very precise in terms of amount.

My applicators are dropper bottles which allow varied size of "drop" depending on how much you squeeze the bottle. So if you imagine the size of a drop of water say? I can effectively apply a 1/4 drop size of the lube with this applicator. And I really doubt you would require more than a 1/4 to 1/2 drop of lube on your focuser to obtain the desired results. [ Just my experience and that of others may vary ] Definitely don't try to use a spray can applicator unless you want to conceivably ruin your binoculars. Even the most careful application will likely "drown" your target mechanism and the excess ending up who knows where inside.... Don't go there. Alternately, if you only have aerosol can variety then spray a small amount into a container and use something like a piece of wire dipped in or a toothpick to pick up a minimum amount. This stuff is VERY viscous so if unsure how much I recommend you experiment on another surface first to see how far a given amount migrates. Ideally, you want the lube to get to the sticky parts and only to the sticky parts. Easier said than done obviously since you probably don't know what the focus mechanism looks like inside. LOL But for sure, a little bit does it with regards to dry lube and you don't want to "OVER"do it. So a good course [even for the initiated] may be to lube your mechanism in tiny steps over a period of time and monitor progress. If your small steps [ one tiny drop of lube each time ] don't yield any appreciable results after say three small steps, it might be best to stop there and just send it in to your chosen. Try a little. Work the focuser one side to the other. Leave it for awhile. Come back, work the focuser again. Is it better? Maybe a little? Not enough to your liking? Maybe put another small drop of lube. I find many times its like the original grease is hardened or maybe non existent and your application of lube doesn't necessarily have the effect you'd want. Its like the original grease is in there and its hardened so its sticking instead of lubing.

I used to use a lot of wet lube. Surprisingly, my favorite wet lube before getting into dry lubes was chainsaw bar and chain lube. I used it on all sorts of things with great success in terms of lubing. Unfortunately, that's a wet lube technology, meaning, it lubes as long as it stays wet. To lube, it needs a wet film in the mechanism. Not so easy to achieve on something like say a high speed motorcycle chain for instance. But the bar and chain lube specifically, has a tackifier which holds the oil in place to some degree. Keeping the lube where you want it better unlike lighter oils that will lube but will not stay in place where you need them to be and will migrate out and no longer lube!! Unfortunately, with all oils and wet lubes, dust will be attracted to the lube and you will have [ at some point ] a mess/dirt buildup. So the importance of using just enough and only enough.

The beauty of the dry lube is that it goes in better than straight oil like B&C lube. Dries in the microscopic pores of the material surfaces and remains there to lubricate. Now the drawback to dry lubes are higher cost and lack of rust prevention. But you aren't concerned with rust prevention in this application.

So why lube it? Well, if its notchy, it probably needs lube. If you are ready to send it back anyways to manufacturer or independent, then how much do you have to lose applying some lube? I mean... don't overdo it. If a small application or two gives/shows no improvement, then you probably need to go another route. Fortunately for me, my applications of lubes on various binoculars have yielded very positive results. Focusers were made smooth and nice and pivots too were freed up. But I am talking older binoculars here. I think there are few mid 80's say binoculars that would not benefit from a careful lubing.

I think common sense should be your guide.

I suppose I might get whiplashed here for this advice and feel free to disregard what I've said here by all means. They're your binoculars and you aren't happy with them for mechanical reasons. So weigh your options and decide whats best for you. If you aren't comfortable lubing them then don't lube them. Send them in. You yourself are soley responsible for your own results and I assume no liability whatsoever and I take no responsibility should you damage your binoculars. This is a try at your own risk endeavor. A half hour or less effort may yield you a binocular that's true love for years to come. Or? You could send it in at who knows what cost and lead time. And there's always the question whether that course of action will fix it better than a careful lubing. Because it will probably be taken apart and reassembled. Will it be assembled right? Or will he just do what I have described here? Its up to you.

Cheers.

I have loosened some old diopter rings using a drop or two of WD-40.
I have to work it back and forth maybe 5 times, whick off excess,
and wait 24 hours for things to diffuse.

OPTIC_NUT said:

I have loosened some old diopter rings using a drop or two of WD-40.
I have to work it back and forth maybe 5 times, whick off excess,
and wait 24 hours for things to diffuse.

Click to expand...

WD40 has become a standard product for every homemaker and many mechanics shelfs across the planet. WD40 is primarily a water diffuser. It does manage to free things up if you spray it into sticky mechanisms. At least in some cases. But the effects will not last. In terms of lubricity, it has essentially no useful lubricating qualities. Again, its primarily to displace water and serves as a pretty half 3 rust preventative.

I highly recommend you not use WD40 unless your objective is to displace water on something like a soaking wet motorcycle chain. Its good for that. Also good for starting cars with spark plug wire issues. As the spark plug wires age they start to cause difficult starting in damp and wet conditions. Years ago a guy showed me this first hand. I was stuck, the car would not start in cold damp conditions. He came along asked me "What's up?" . I say, I don't know. It won't start. He say "Hold on, I'll be right back". He comes back, sprays down the spark plug wires with a can of WD40. Tells me, "Let it sit for a minute so the WD soaks in and displaces the water". I do, the car starts like a champ first try. Mmmmmmm.

So anyways. Its well accepted WD40 makes a good lubricant and its about time that fallacy be put to rest. Better if you must use an off the shelf type lubricant is that Dupont Teflon Dry Lube Spray sold now at many hardware stores. The caveat is that teflon, by nature of what it is, does not withstand close to as much load and pressure as moly. But certainly in a binocular focus mechanism or diopter, I should think teflon would be fine.

Of course I would just use moly dry lube because I can. I have a lot of it purchased for other "stringent and demanding" applications. It accomplishes the same thing as a good heavy oil such as B&C lube [ ie... you put a drop on the mechanism in confined space and it goes into the mechanism and lubes ] but it flows in better because its more viscous, it adheres to the substrates better as it gets right into the pores of the surfaces and adheres there, remaining and protecting against surface to surface, and it dries so you don't have problems with dust/sludge buildup. fwiw. Of course, for less stringent applications, the teflon dry lube would function fine. But keep in mind that neither dry lube will protect against rust.

FWIW, you will not likely find Moly Dry Lube at your local stores. At least if my own experience here is any indication. You can find it at specialized industrial suppliers typically. Its definitely not cheap running $12 - $20 + a spray can. But aerosol varieties are pretty wasteful and you don't really want moly getting all over everything so better is in a container and you apply with an eyedropper or whatnot. It's pretty amazing slick. You might be impressed. I was. :t:

Is it this one?

http://hybris.cms.henkel.com/medias/sys_master/8813930381342.pdf

It seems to operate down to -29°C....wintertime use in bins?

Edit: Some info on dry films: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/861/solid-film-lubricants


Anders

I doubt lubing from the outside would hurt anything, provided the o-ring seals around the knob do their job. But, only if the friction was very external would it do any good. The internal focusing has lots of parts so deep and complex that even if the o-rings failed, lubricant dripped on the focusing shaft would never reach them. The focusing lenses ride on a sturdy carriage that slides on a track inside the barrel, and it seems likely enough that the friction is there. Look in the front of the binocular as the focus knob is turned to see some of the mechanism. But squirt away.

At worst, if lube invades the optics in a negative way, the $150 minimum charge covers "cleaning, adjustment, collimation and lubrication", so there would effectively be no extra cost for the cleanup.

Ron

Binoseeker said:

Is it this one?

http://hybris.cms.henkel.com/medias/sys_master/8813930381342.pdf

It seems to operate down to -29°C....wintertime use in bins?

Edit: Some info on dry films: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/861/solid-film-lubricants


Anders

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I don't see any reason the Loctite brand linked would not work fine. There are many brands of dry moly lube.

My experience with applying the dry moly lube to binoculars has been mostly to older porro prism varieties. I have only used it on three different binoculars at this point. Each was "drastically" improved by the application of the lube on the center focusing knob. In fact, you have to be careful. The one binocular I lubed in excess I guess. It was the first one I tried it on. The focuser was heavy and that binocular has a very short throw from full in to full out focus. So as received, when you tried to focus it was very difficult as the force required to move the knob was such that I usually would go past the desired point of focus once the resistance was overcome it would go too far, past the desired focus point and then the opposite where you would try to get back to where you wanted to go and same thing, many times missing the point you wanted. It was - infuriating. LOL

I lubed it up. Worked if fully back and forth. Left if for a day or so. Came back, it was better. Much better. Lubed it again. LOL Worked it back and forth. Left it again. Better still. I may have even lubed it again. Duh!!! So now its just sweet, smooth, clean, no slop. Only trouble is, it moves so easy that if you push on the focusing bridge with your brow you can actually push the focus bridge down and change focus without touching the focus knob! Its that slick. Lucky for me I wear glasses and as a rule I'm careful not to apply heavy pressure to the eyecup surfaces cause I don't want to scratch my glasses lenses or get skin oil on the inner lens surfaces of my glasses.

The Bushnell custom compact I got for the gf is probably a 1960's sample. It had been around and then some. In good physical condition but stiff all around. The focus for instance was too stiff to be enjoyable in use. I set to on it and lubed it up all around. Same as above but learnt my lesson and not so much lube. Ba ha. Well, now its slick as slick could be. Everything is smooth, clean, precise. A pleasure to use from focus to IPD adjustment its sweet. Better than new cause they don't make em like that anymore.

ronh said:

I doubt lubing from the outside would hurt anything, provided the o-ring seals around the knob do their job. But, only if the friction was very external would it do any good. The internal focusing has lots of parts so deep and complex that even if the o-rings failed, lubricant dripped on the focusing shaft would never reach them. The focusing lenses ride on a sturdy carriage that slides on a track inside the barrel, and it seems likely enough that the friction is there. Look in the front of the binocular as the focus knob is turned to see some of the mechanism. But squirt away.

At worst, if lube invades the optics in a negative way, the $150 minimum charge covers "cleaning, adjustment, collimation and lubrication", so there would effectively be no extra cost for the cleanup.

Ron

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Some valid points. I guess it would depend on the binocular. It seems to me many times much of the stickiness is in the knob itself. Now, if there's O-ring seals that are designed to keep out water they might keep out lube as well so in that case carefully lubing might not work. That said, dry moly lube is actually applied wet and it dries. Its not like powdered graphite or that nature. Its often water based and its very viscous. It wouldn't surprise me if it got past O-rings but as you know, all O-rings are not created equal. In the case of tight O-rings, I should think the dry moly lube would help lube the shaft where it goes through the O-rings reducing resistance.

Your assertion that it seems likely enough the friction is there, as in the inside of the binoculars, is anyone's guess. Maybe, maybe not, as an old gf of mine used to say. And she was wiser than some I've been with since LOL. My intuition is that grease applied at manufacture on the internal focusing parts would stay there. My reasoning being that in my mind, its not subjected to weather or enviro like the focusing knob. So by extension, I see more likelihood of the focusing knob itself and the outer mechanisms being the culprit from exposure to environment, humidity, possibly corrosion from even the surrounding air itself. Like she said... maybe/not.

On the cleaning bit its recommended not to put dry moly lube on anything you don't want it on cause its not an easy clean off. That's my understanding. It's become my go to lube around the house. Flows into minute spaces a lot better than oil and coats the surfaces. It continues to lube when ordinary oil lubrication [ wet film lube ] has dried out or migrated away due to gravity or centrifical force or whatever the case may be leaving surfaces wearing on each other.

I used to use the B&C lube on every darn thing. And it was with the understanding an application was good for only so long. And then I would dutifully lube it again after some months or when it would start to squeek. And then you had the dirt biuldup as it attracts and holds dust. Dust is everywhere as anyone who has ever tried to keep optical lenses clean knows. And the lubed areas get gooky. It becomes a mess. This stuff, as long as don't apply too much, doesn't make the mess. But you don't want to get moly dry lube on your cloths for instance cause you will have a devil of a time getting if out if you ever do. The lady on the phone at the company I bought if from said so right out. She is like.. I hate that stuff. If it gets on you or your cloths its impossible to get it off! So me thinks you'd best not get this stuff on your optics lenses or your service provider of choice will likely be issuing you some bad news with regards to your optics. That said, a tiny drop into your focus knob top and bottom is not gonna get all over your lenses. Some common sense. If you get some, play around with it lubing some less critical stuff to get a feel for its properties. Your window pivots, ratchets, knobs, locks will all be made slicker than you ever remember and will stay that way.

This is very interesting information about dry moly. I have a Swarovski FH 101 head that has a sticky pan motion that is unpleasantly noticeable when on high power zoom. Today I used some synthetic fishing reel lubrication on it and it seems much improved. If the wet lubrication starts to fail me, I will try the dry moly. Thanks for the information.

I would recommend calling the service center and asking them specifically how much they would charge to adjust the focus tension. That may be something that they can do relatively inexpensively. When I sent my 8x50 Trinovids to have sand cleaned out of the eyecups (which they did free of charge, honoring the lifetime warranty that apparently covers acts of stupidity), they also adjusted the focus knob tension so that it wasn't quite so easy to turn, an improvement I didn't know needed improving until it was done. If they would go to the trouble of adjusting the focus tension on a simple eyecup cleaning, it might not be that much trouble for them.

bcskr said:

This is very interesting information about dry moly. I have a Swarovski FH 101 head that has a sticky pan motion that is unpleasantly noticeable when on high power zoom. Today I used some synthetic fishing reel lubrication on it and it seems much improved. If the wet lubrication starts to fail me, I will try the dry moly. Thanks for the information.

Click to expand...

That wet synthetic lube you mentioned using on your tripod pan head should do the trick nicely. There's a case where you could lube wet or dry. The big worry either way is of course getting lube where you did not intend or want to get lube. Always a possibility when lubing from the outside on the user end standpoint. There's really not much danger of excess lube with your pan head but you might notice it collects dust and weed burrs and whatnot. Where the dry lube would not. Either way its got to be lubed if its not smooth. As I suppose you know, there's few things more aggravating than a knotchy setup on a pan head causing jerky action making viewing difficult and tedious.

When considering lubing a Leica focusser, keep in mind that the Leica focussers are designed specifically to work without lubricants. So I am not sure wheather lubing would do any good at all, or rather do harm to the mechanism. Perhaps it would also devoid warranty claims.
I'd agree to what closefocus says: first check with the Leica service.
Reading older discussins, adjusting sticky focus used to be a frequently done fix with the Ultravid BRs, and I think it was usually done for free or as part of warranty repair.