20X Eypiece versus 32X (Leica) (1 Viewer)

flavirostris · Jan 30, 2006

Hi,

I've heard the lower magnification eyepieces are more suitable for digiscoping. I'm currently using 32XWW with Leica APO Televid 77 & find that picture quality tends to be blurry, so I was considering changing to a 20X eyepiece.
Is there a marked difference between the two?
Also I had heard that Eagle Eye have produced a 10X universal eyepiece,
does anybody have any experiences (good or bad) of using this?

Thank You

John

Neil · Jan 31, 2006

You haven't mentioned the camera that you are using so it's a bit difficult to comment. Generally if using a 3x zoom digicam at full zoom on a 32x eyepiece you are getting to the limits of quality digiscoping. In order to get sharp photos at this magnification you need good light, a stable tripod/head,remote release/self-timer and a static subject. The 20x eyepiece will bring the magnification back to a more realistic 40x approx. (I'm assuming the Eye Relief of the eyepieces are the same ). With the Swarovski eyepieces the 30x has more Eye Relief than the 20x and so you can use less camera zoom without vignetting (1/3 instead of 2/3's ) and so you have less magnification than with the 20x at full zoom in the camera. So check out the Eye Relief of the eyepiece you are thinking of. Scopetronix have a nice Maxview 40 eyepiece (11.5x ) with a built in thread for camera adapters.Neil.

Leicaman · Jan 31, 2006

I own both eyepieces and digiscope with a Nikon Coolpix 4500. I normally use the 32x as it gives me more magnification, but it is necessary to zoom in quite a bit to lose the vignetting.

The 20x is easier to use, with its wider field of view, when you are trying to locate your subject, and it gives a brighter picture.

David

iporali · Jan 31, 2006

flavirostris said:
Hi,

I've heard the lower magnification eyepieces are more suitable for digiscoping. I'm currently using 32XWW with Leica APO Televid 77 & find that picture quality tends to be blurry, so I was considering changing to a 20X eyepiece.
Is there a marked difference between the two?

Hi John,

I may have been one of those, who have sung praises of the Leica 20x eyepiece for digiscoping. It has a 20mm eye-relief which is even better than that of the 32x (which is a brilliant eyepiece too). The marked difference is going to be in the fields-of-view of your images - assuming that a 20mm eye-relief is enough for your camera. Small cameras with a 3x zoom can usually be used throughout their zoom range with such a wide-angled eyepiece (at least Sony W7, Canon A95, Olympus SP-350, Panasonic FX9...). Practically a wide FOV allows you to get closer to the subject, which brings several beneficial effects to the image quality: less atmospheric turbulences, faster shutter speeds ("1x zoom" has larger aperture), lower power -> less shake, "more room" to compose etc. But if you try to photograph distant subjects, a 32x eyepiece is actually better - and you may have to search solutions to blurry images from other directions (like the tripod/head, camera, adapter etc.)

Regards,

Ilkka

flavirostris · Jan 31, 2006

Camera used with Leica APO 77

Neil said:
You haven't mentioned the camera that you are using so it's a bit difficult to comment. Generally if using a 3x zoom digicam at full zoom on a 32x eyepiece you are getting to the limits of quality digiscoping. In order to get sharp photos at this magnification you need good light, a stable tripod/head,remote release/self-timer and a static subject. The 20x eyepiece will bring the magnification back to a more realistic 40x approx. (I'm assuming the Eye Relief of the eyepieces are the same ). With the Swarovski eyepieces the 30x has more Eye Relief than the 20x and so you can use less camera zoom without vignetting (1/3 instead of 2/3's ) and so you have less magnification than with the 20x at full zoom in the camera. So check out the Eye Relief of the eyepiece you are thinking of. Scopetronix have a nice Maxview 40 eyepiece (11.5x ) with a built in thread for camera adapters.Neil.

Hi Neil,

sorry, forgot to mention that.. it's the Nikon Coolpix 4500. I am also using an Eagle Eye L1 28mm digimount adapter. I find that most of the pictures I take tend to be blurry or soft around the edges. I am also investing in a remote shutter release to try and improve the picture quality.
You mention stable tripod above, I think this might be another area I need to address. I currently have the Manfrotto 700, but I don't think it's great for digiscoping purposes. I have heard the 701 or 501 might be better ( I think they have a lock?)

John

flavirostris · Jan 31, 2006

iporali said:
Hi John,

I may have been one of those, who have sung praises of the Leica 20x eyepiece for digiscoping. It has a 20mm eye-relief which is even better than that of the 32x (which is a brilliant eyepiece too). The marked difference is going to be in the fields-of-view of your images - assuming that a 20mm eye-relief is enough for your camera. Small cameras with a 3x zoom can usually be used throughout their zoom range with such a wide-angled eyepiece (at least Sony W7, Canon A95, Olympus SP-350, Panasonic FX9...). Practically a wide FOV allows you to get closer to the subject, which brings several beneficial effects to the image quality: less atmospheric turbulences, faster shutter speeds ("1x zoom" has larger aperture), lower power -> less shake, "more room" to compose etc. But if you try to photograph distant subjects, a 32x eyepiece is actually better - and you may have to search solutions to blurry images from other directions (like the tripod/head, camera, adapter etc.)

Regards,

Ilkka

Hi Ilkka,

Thanks for the above,
when you refer to 20mm eye-relief being enough for the camera - I was a bit unsure about this, what did you mean exactly?
I'm using Nikon CP 4500 (which I think has 4X zoom).
I notice that when I attach my camera to the scope, the shutter speed invariably drops down to 60 (in aperture priority mode), even in very good light.
From what you say it sound like a low magnification eyepiece with a larger FOV will allow me faster shutter speeds.
This could be all important as I live in Ireland (where light isn't the best)

All the best

John

iporali · Jan 31, 2006

flavirostris said:
when you refer to 20mm eye-relief being enough for the camera - I was a bit unsure about this, what did you mean exactly?
I'm using Nikon CP 4500 (which I think has 4X zoom).

OK, the CP4500 (which I also have) requires about 20mm eye-relief for unvignetted images. The newer cameras, with "external" 3x zoom actually need less ER (= distance between the eye/camera and the eyepiece). So if your Nikon vignettes a little with the 32x (depending on your adapters etc.), it vignettes *slightly* less with the 20x - and the Sony W7 should not vignette at all.

From what you say it sound like a low magnification eyepiece with a larger FOV will allow me faster shutter speeds.
This could be all important as I live in Ireland (where light isn't the best)

It does sound so, but if you have to zoom in more, you will lose the advantage. My main point was the obvious: you will lose power, but you will gain field-of-view, which is important at close shooting distances, which helps you to improve sharpness.

Regards, :t:

Ilkka

flavirostris · Jan 31, 2006

iporali said:
OK, the CP4500 (which I also have) requires about 20mm eye-relief for unvignetted images. The newer cameras, with "external" 3x zoom actually need less ER (= distance between the eye/camera and the eyepiece). So if your Nikon vignettes a little with the 32x (depending on your adapters etc.), it vignettes *slightly* less with the 20x - and the Sony W7 should not vignette at all.

It does sound so, but if you have to zoom in more, you will lose the advantage. My main point was the obvious: you will lose power, but you will gain field-of-view, which is important at close shooting distances, which helps you to improve sharpness.

Regards, :t:

Ilkka

Thanks Ilkka,

do you mind me asking which adapter you use?
I use the EagleEye L1 Digimount - which I think does not allow the camera lense near enough to the eyepiece. I could be wrong here, but there is always a lot of vignetting with this adapter and the 32XWW Eyepiece ( so I have to zoom up to get rid of this)

Also, what is meant by a camera's "internal" and "external" zoom?
Sorry I'm a bit of a novice with this stuff

Cheers

John

iporali · Jan 31, 2006

John,

It may be that your adapter does not bring the camera close enough to the eyepiece. I used to have a Spidertech 2-part adapter (a great adapter BTW) with my previous Kowa TSN-823, but the old Kowa eyepieces had such short eye relief that I switched to a second-hand Swarovski AT80HD - and then the adapter didn't fit any more. Now I have a zoom and a 20xSW eyepiece, which I use with a "Baader Microstage" -platform. Unfortunately the Swaro 20x has much less eye-relief than the corresponding Leica 20x, which means that due to vignetting I can't take advantage of the 20xSW's wider field of view - using my CP4500. This is why I am considering a new camera.

This external vs. internal zoom was a common topic about 2 years ago

. The swivel-Coolpixes were popular in digiscoping partly because they had true filter threads and the "front lens" of the zoom didn't move during zooming - it was called an "internal zoom". Well, actually the front glass is just a window behind which there is a typical "external zoom". Anyway, nowadays most good digiscoping cameras have an "external" 3x zoom, which moves back and forth during zooming. You can't attach a digiscoping adapter on the moving objective, which means that you must have some kind of filter barrel screwed on the camera body.

Regards,

Ilkka

Neil · Jan 31, 2006

Shutter Speed with the CP4500

flavirostris said:
Hi Ilkka,

Thanks for the above,
when you refer to 20mm eye-relief being enough for the camera - I was a bit unsure about this, what did you mean exactly?
I'm using Nikon CP 4500 (which I think has 4X zoom).
I notice that when I attach my camera to the scope, the shutter speed invariably drops down to 60 (in aperture priority mode), even in very good light.
From what you say it sound like a low magnification eyepiece with a larger FOV will allow me faster shutter speeds.
This could be all important as I live in Ireland (where light isn't the best)

All the best

John

This seems a bit strange to me. I was able to get 1/350th sec shutter speeds with the CP4500 on hazy days (iso 100) and up 1/1000th sec on clear days. You may need to adjust your f stop to it's widest . Take a light reading with the camera off the scope and then hand hold it to the eyepiece and take a photo, before putting it on the adapter. Neil.

griffin · Jan 31, 2006

I would go for the 20WW. I have the 32WW and NEVER use it for digiscoping, preferring the 20x setting on the Leica Zoom, with a 4500 and LCE adapter. The 32WW is a fantastic objective though, and I know others who get good results with it.

Grif

Paul Hackett · Feb 1, 2006

Neil said:
This seems a bit strange to me. I was able to get 1/350th sec shutter speeds with the CP4500 on hazy days (iso 100) and up 1/1000th sec on clear days. You may need to adjust your f stop to it's widest . Take a light reading with the camera off the scope and then hand hold it to the eyepiece and take a photo, before putting it on the adapter. Neil.

Hi Flavirostis

I was in Dublin on Saturday giving a Digiscopng lecture at the Information Centre at the Bull Island, This subject about speed and f stops was raised, by myself, and was a pleasant surprise for some of the coolpix users in the room to learn. Neil points out to you that adjust your f stop to its widest point in Aperture priority mode, this is done by moving the silver dial to the left a couple of turns, you will notice that the speed may go to a higher setting which in turn changes the f stop setting, this can be the difference between a blurred and sharp picture dependant on your focusing, distance to the bird, and the amount of light. Hope this makes sense?

Rgds

Paul

flavirostris · Feb 1, 2006

Paul Hackett said:
Hi Flavirostis

I was in Dublin on Saturday giving a Digiscopng lecture at the Information Centre at the Bull Island, This subject about speed and f stops was raised, by myself, and was a pleasant surprise for some of the coolpix users in the room to learn. Neil points out to you that adjust your f stop to its widest point in Aperture priority mode, this is done by moving the silver dial to the left a couple of turns, you will notice that the speed may go to a higher setting which in turn changes the f stop setting, this can be the difference between a blurred and sharp picture dependant on your focusing, distance to the bird, and the amount of light. Hope this makes sense?

Rgds

Paul

Hi Paul,

I was at your course & could I just say probably the best 25 euro I have ever spent. I have been raving about it ever since. My compliments on the pictures which were nothing short of awesome.
I took in what you said about adjusting the "f stop" by rotating the command dial to the left. Am I right in saying that widest possible f stop value = lowest number for aperture ? i.e 2.6 or something.
I find typically that my coolpix shutter speed drops down considerably when attached to the scope ( for example, it might be 250 when unattached and then goes down to 60 when attached to the Leica scope).
I was also unsure about my EagleEye Adapter - which to my eye dosen't allow the camera lense near enough to the eyepiece. It's the type L1 digimount adapter used with 32xWW Eyepiece.

John

Paul Hackett · Feb 1, 2006

flavirostris said:
Hi Paul,

I was at your course & could I just say probably the best 25 euro I have ever spent. I have been raving about it ever since. My compliments on the pictures which were nothing short of awesome.
I took in what you said about adjusting the "f stop" by rotating the command dial to the left. Am I right in saying that widest possible f stop value = lowest number for aperture ? i.e 2.6 or something.
I find typically that my coolpix shutter speed drops down considerably when attached to the scope ( for example, it might be 250 when unattached and then goes down to 60 when attached to the Leica scope).
I was also unsure about my EagleEye Adapter - which to my eye dosen't allow the camera lense near enough to the eyepiece. It's the type L1 digimount adapter used with 32xWW Eyepiece.

John

Hi John

Now we have a name i remember you! Thanks for the compliments, i did run over the finish time by an hour but i think nobody minded!

In answer to your f stop question yes john in basic terms you are correct,

Regarding shutter speed think of how much light comes into your camera lens when it isnt attached and then you place it onto a scope with lenses, the light reduces and the speed goes down, also remember that upping the ISO speed on your coolpix and you may gain a slightly higher shutter speed and can then place your image if its too noisy through a noise remover such as neat image or picture cooler ( free downloads)

Eagleye adapter - there is an actual gap bewteen the camera lens and scope eyepiece on most adapters, the Eagleeye is no better or worse than any of the other adapters for this gap, i.e. LCE, spidertech adapters, the coolpix range of cameras on the whole does lend itself to the camera being closer, its fine john dont worry about it, the set up you have is a good set up for taking digiscoped pictures, just try and get some practice in with the new settings

Hope this helps?

Rgds

Paul

flavirostris · Feb 1, 2006

Paul Hackett said:
Hi John

Now we have a name i remember you! Thanks for the compliments, i did run over the finish time by an hour but i think nobody minded!

In answer to your f stop question yes john in basic terms you are correct,

Regarding shutter speed think of how much light comes into your camera lens when it isnt attached and then you place it onto a scope with lenses, the light reduces and the speed goes down, also remember that upping the ISO speed on your coolpix and you may gain a slightly higher shutter speed and can then place your image if its too noisy through a noise remover such as neat image or picture cooler ( free downloads)

Eagleye adapter - there is an actual gap bewteen the camera lens and scope eyepiece on most adapters, the Eagleeye is no better or worse than any of the other adapters for this gap, i.e. LCE, spidertech adapters, the coolpix range of cameras on the whole does lend itself to the camera being closer, its fine john dont worry about it, the set up you have is a good set up for taking digiscoped pictures, just try and get some practice in with the new settings

Hope this helps?

Rgds

Paul

Cheers Paul,

I think you might be thinking of another John who was at the back, I was near the front beside a couple of chaps called Victor & Aidan.
I have been experimenting with the ISO of late and this does indeed help with shutter speed. I have also tried out Neatimage on "noisy" pictures I had taken at ISO 800 and it cleans them right up.
I'll persevere with the Eagle Eye so,
btw - I have also decided to invest in a 20xWW lense.
you mentioned that low-mag, wide angle lenses have the edge over higher-mag lenses.
Do you find that the EagleEye 10X is preferable to the Leica 20xWW?

Best Regards

John

steveblain · May 11, 2006

flavirostris said:
Cheers Paul,

I think you might be thinking of another John who was at the back, I was near the front beside a couple of chaps called Victor & Aidan.
I have been experimenting with the ISO of late and this does indeed help with shutter speed. I have also tried out Neatimage on "noisy" pictures I had taken at ISO 800 and it cleans them right up.
I'll persevere with the Eagle Eye so,
btw - I have also decided to invest in a 20xWW lense.
you mentioned that low-mag, wide angle lenses have the edge over higher-mag lenses.
Do you find that the EagleEye 10X is preferable to the Leica 20xWW?

Best Regards

John

Hi John,

I have both the 20x and the Eagleeye 10x - both are excellent digiscoping lenses, however if you have a close bird, the 10x really is extremely hard to beat. Very sharp and bright, much more so than the 20x from Leica. I'm sure Paul will agree with me on this too.

If you have the cash, get one of the 10x as well - you won't regret it.

Best wishes

Steve

buzzard12 · Aug 8, 2006

steveblain said:
Hi John,

I have both the 20x and the Eagleeye 10x - both are excellent digiscoping lenses, however if you have a close bird, the 10x really is extremely hard to beat. Very sharp and bright, much more so than the 20x from Leica. I'm sure Paul will agree with me on this too.

If you have the cash, get one of the 10x as well - you won't regret it.

Best wishes

Steve

How much (roughly) is the eagleye 10x retailing at?

Also, does it fit directly onto the scope as one of leica's lenses would via a bayonet type attachment and will a standard fitting adaptor used with the leica lenses fit the 10x?

20X Eypiece versus 32X (Leica) (1 Viewer)

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