For 600 or 800 (USD or Euros) you can get excellent optical performance such in a Zeiss Conquest or turbidity and dullness such as in a ........ look at the MEASUREMENTS!
[...]
Tom
Hey Tom, maybe I'm showing my true colors (tenderfoot green), but is there some particular warning against a particular make/model you're implying, but don't wish to let others know? Send me a PM if you don't want to say it publicly; but I'm completely oblivious to the etiquette of not insulting makes/models that are inferior. And the figures... I can read them, but really, what matters most is subjective perspectives, as I have had little enough experience I could spout off about diopter adjustments and FOV, but be completely clueless, and not realize how a sticky focus wheel might destroy any leisure binoculars.
As far as the small units go, I do not care too much for a 8x20 alpha bin. [...]
In your Alula review, I would go for the Opticron*, 25mm, or a similar Vortex Vanquish. Which I would recommend to the original poster as well for a compact. I agree that under 100 dollar 8x25 roof prisms never make most of us happy. Just something to carry around for a quick look on a walk. Mine are Minoltas.
*Second choice would be the Nikon for its widest fov of those tested.
Tero, I hope I don't come off as dismissive, petty, or insulting. My post count is low, my lurk count very high. Your contributions to this website are nothing to sniff at, and actually taking time to help me with this choice, I have nothing but respect for you. However, I do honestly want to know: do you carry at ALL times a pair of 25mm, or your preferred formats(?) x28 or x32 at all hours that you are outside of your house? If so, what else do you carry with you? I am looking for a pair of binoculars that will be with me as constantly as I do my cell phone, keys, flashlight, pocketknife. For EDC, or every day carry, people are willing to pay a premium, sometimes like 50% or more to cut some ounces or to lower the overall volume by 10%. Sometimes I don't have my bag with me, and it might go on a belt, or, heaven forbid, pants pockets. If there is a magical way to carry larger binocs with me for 16 hours, every day, ALL the time (until I lay me down to rest), without it being more cumbersome, I'm all ears.
Dear General, Sir!
Instead of joining the band of gospeleers who ignore your statements which have been quite precise, assuming that you don#t know what you are talking about, I shall rather take an opposite approach, assuming you've got a brain to make up your mind with. [...]
Major Tom
Tom, as always, courtesy is met with courtesy, and high estimations of my judgment by a more seasoned member is met with exceeding deference on my part. Alas, to invest in the high end at this point is simply not feasible. No meaningful discernible income at this point = insanity to insist to the powers that be (parents) that purchasing alpha bins is a good idea. And the powers that be have been more than generous with help along my educational career, and my mother being a CPA means that she overlooks my tax returns when helping me out...
"GenEV, what's this $1,200 gone from your account here?"
"Oh, yeah, forgot to tell you! I found an awesome pair of Ultravids on CameralandNY, and had to get them!"
"Umm... that's a stock?"
"No, just about the best pair of binoculars ever!"
"Right... [a few hours later] GenEv, we think you should finish your final semester at another school"
"Really mom? Well, alright, where is it?"
"Just follow the men in the white coats outside..."
Forgive my digression. What I'm trying to say here, is that I'm prepared to invest in some instruments that are investment worthy, but only to a point. Small roofs don't seem to be getting better by leaps and bounds, so that purchase should stay good. The large format bins, however, leap so much in difference every few years, I can't justify going the ramen/no beer/odd-jobs/parents thinking I'm crazy for a pair of binoculars that will have a 3% advantage over ones that cost 1/3. If I do become a police sniper, I will upgrade. But let's talk about that after I (unbeknownst to me!) become a sniper.
If you're hooked on compacts, get the best you can afford. The ~$100 compact roofs are mostly similar, and mostly garbage.
Righto. Thanks for the confirmation of suspicions.
Try Leupold Katmai 6x32. [...]
Cheers
Yes, I've agonized over them quite a bit. May be in consideration, but I'm trying to maintain the myth of 2 bins at this point! That might not be the truth in the future, but for now, please, let my castles in the clouds stand!!
Regarding your choice of Zeiss Victory 8x20, I think you will be happy with it and it may be better than the cheaper Conquest for you as I think it has twist or pullup eyecups and is waterproof.
Again, I want to go as high as possible with compacts... but the price differential between everything and the ultravids... it's killing me. $150 (minimum) could be so much better spent on large optics...
FrankD really likes the Leupold Cascades 8x42 (Opticron HR WP 8x42 in UK). Very sharp. Waterproof. Internal focuser. Rather narrow FOV. You need a very good roof to beat it.
Swift Audubon 8.5x44 ED or non-ED. The "poor man's Swarovski". More bulky than a roof - the main reason for the change to roofs, IMHO, was ergonomics. But the view is good. ER is mediocre. Wide field.
Those cascades are EXTREMELY attractive at the price. What's the cheapest that beats it- a promaster/hawke?
I do know all about the cheaper porros- I'm thinking about getting 2 or 3 yosemites or something when funds are more free to have around in different places.
Since you claim to do minimal birding with these, get the 8x20 Zeiss or get the lightest and most compact 8x32 you can find. There are numerous good models these days, but the Meopta may be the best for under 1000. Pentax 8x32 ED comes close, may be even better to some.
Point blank question: are the Meoptas better than the promaster/hawke, and in what ways? Again, considering that my discretionary spending at this point amounts to... I'm going to guess off the top of my head, around $3,000... Yeah. 1/3rd of my total discretionary for the year. On binocs that may not be better than something that's 1/6th my discretionary fund. It won't always be this way; but take that into account- I've got a girlfriend (dates, etc.), champagne tastes, a beer budget... and I need to make it all work! I have saved some money for combined, at this point, of under $1000, and that $1000 mark is the point where I cry (not entirely joking) if the binoculars aren't like having transplanted eagle eyes.
I have no argument with your plan to get a good compact, and the Zeiss 8x20 Victory is my second favorite 8x20 after the Leica 8x20 Ultravid BL (I own both). [...]
It's true that an awesome 8x32 will give you nearly uncompromised optical performance in a very compact package (the Leica 8x32 Ultravid is my vote for the champ in that regard), but it is also true that the performance of top-end pocket roofs can be stunningly good. In fact, I would recommend getting the best (Leica Ultravid or Zeiss Victory) and being done with it. You'll have the small end covered for life, and you can get a good 8x32 or 8x42 to complement it when you have the money to do so in the future. I wouldn't go with an 8x25 or 8x28--much bulkier than the Zeiss 8x20, too close in size to the 8x32 that you might get down the road, and I don't know of any that are top-notch optically so if you might be tempted (and rightly so) to upgrade in the future.
My pocket roofs get _a lot_ of use; besides being great for any occasion when I want to have a bino with me without noticing that I'm carrying one, they're handy for butterflying (<6 foot close focus and no need for a big exit pupil for viewing those sun loving critters), when I'm juggling secondary importance binoculars with primary importance camera, at theater/dance/orchestral performances, and are a constant companion in my day bag during spring and fall migrations.
--AP
Right! Your post is one of those that I cut the least out of, because your post is almost exactly my thought process. I'm committed to no longer buying crap, ever. If I buy something, I want it to be worthwhile. If I buy a promaster, yeah, I might upgrade to a Swaro EL, but that promaster is too good to let go to waste... and it would still fit somewhere as a purpose. But I don't buy cheap these days, if I can at all help it.
There isn't anything that will beat them (Promaster/Hawke) optically at the $500 point; until you hit the alpha's. And then the difference is really slim. I've spent some time the last couple of weeks comparing my Promaster ELX ED to top end Swarovski EL, Leica U HD, Zeiss FL, and Steiner XP. I'll get a post together about that and get it up by this evening, I hope.
Post was awesome. Just read it. Thanks for the review! Very helpful. Anyway, I'll continue to read and answer posts. In the meanwhile, I'm busy seeing if I can arrange a time to play with another forum member to play with his compacts, to get an idea of what I'm doing! There's a reason I joined as opposed to just lurking...
