Blackout in the SE models. (1 Viewer)

Hello
I have read (especially in astronomical forums) about the "blackout" effect on 12X50SE model, and wanted them to ask whether this effect also would occur in other SE models, the 8X32SE and 10X42SE, I think they all seem to be very good for bird observation
thanks

Hello,
Some years ago I could extensively use the model Nikon 10X42SE, despite look like he had a very good optical and mechanical quality, this effect Blackout I found very annoying, its owner did not mind so much ... the other models I can not comment.
regards

wachipilotes said:

Hello
I have read (especially in astronomical forums) about the "blackout" effect on 12X50SE model, and wanted them to ask whether this effect also would occur in other SE models, the 8X32SE and 10X42SE, I think they all seem to be very good for bird observation
thanks

Click to expand...

Yes, because they all use the same eyepiece, which is the cause. I personally don't have any problems with blackout in the SE, but others do.

--AP

It is a question personal ?

I mean .... depends on our eyes? the physiognomy of each?

albatrosviajero said:

I mean .... depends on our eyes? the physiognomy of each?

Click to expand...

Maybe thats the reason. I had the 8x32 a while ago, but only for a few days. Because of the many reports regarding black outs i payed attention to this problem. But i had always a very nice view through this binocular. The best thing is to try it if you get a chance. No one - besides yourself- can give you a definitive answer.

albatrosviajero said:

I mean .... depends on our eyes? the physiognomy of each?

Click to expand...

I imagine it has to do with how we hold the bin to our eyes, move our eyes during viewing, and move the bin while moving our eyes. I don't know all the factors in play, but I have just never had much trouble with kidney beaning or other blackout issues with bins or astro eyepieces. In particular, I seem to be able to jam oculars right up to my eyes (with or without glasses) without ill effect on viewing, so I am not troubled by negative effects of holding a bin "too close" to my eyes. I suspect with the SE, I hold them too close, so I maintain "contact" with their curved exit pupil as I move my eyes off axis.

--AP

Hello Ablatrosviajero,

I had that problem with the 8x32 model. It is indeed a very personal reaction to binocular's optics. I sold mine, years, ago.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

It's a problem for many people. I get "kidney beaning" partial black outs unless I hold my 8x32 SE in a special way and then I don't get them.

I brace the eye cups of my 8x32 SE against and just under my eye brow ridge right below my eye brows. I then tilt the binocular very slightly upwards and I use it in that manner. (Experiment a bit to get the right angle.) I don't move binocular at all. I keep it braced against my eye brow ridge. I follow the birds by moving my head. I do not have blackouts when I use it in this manner. I learned this technique many years ago when I used a Leitz (Not Leica) 7x42 Trinovid BA that gave me the same kind of blackouts.

This technique also works for me if I am wearing sun glasses. I brace the binoculars up against the glasses and tilt them upwards.

Bob

I find the Nikon SE to be a perfect fit for me. I don't wear eyeglasses and
they are just as advertised, a great binocular.

I do think they fit most users very well, and just the ones who have had issues
are the ones that have posted.

Don't be afraid of them, I'm not, I own all 3 models.

Jerry

A pair of thin O-rings tucked under the folded eyecups gave me the necessary 3mm of reduction in eye-relief to make delight out of despair.

David

wachipilotes said:

Hello
I have read (especially in astronomical forums) about the "blackout" effect on 12X50SE model, and wanted them to ask whether this effect also would occur in other SE models, the 8X32SE and 10X42SE, I think they all seem to be very good for bird observation
thanks

Click to expand...

It seems to be an individual thing. There are people who have 0 problems while others ended up selling the binocular they could not use. The cause seems to be the eyepiece suffering from the spherical aberration of the exit pupil (scroll down). It doesn't degrade image quality, only the blackouts are a problem for some.

As others have said, it depends on your physiology. Having symetrical features helps since it will enable you to keep both eyes centered in the exit pupils. Going a bit off center is what can cause image blackouts. I noticed that since I bought a new pair of eyecups for my 8x32 SE, I'm more suspetible to blackouts. Before that, the slight flaring of the eyecups (which is caused by me having to dig the wide eyecups in between my rhinoproboscis) put my eyes at a slightly farther distance from the EPs and minimized blackouts.

You can experience image blackouts with SE by either not having your eyes centered or by being too close to the EPs or by having your eyes at the wrong angle. Those who say they have no problems with the SE so you will have no problems aren't correct. You won't know until you try one yourself since your facial features are unique to you.

Even though they all share the same EPs, I have more issues with the 8x32 than the 10x42 and 12x50, I think because I use the 8x32 at closer distances, which requires resetting the IPD. When I'm in a rush to "get on a bird" quickly, I don't always take the time to make sure the view is a perfect circle.

With the 10x42 SE, I'm generally "looking long," so I rarely reset the IPD, and since I used the 12x50 for stargazing, I never reset the IPD.

There's also a technique I've named MOLCET that suprisingly nobody's mentioned that can help you stop the blackouts.

Below are some photos of what this looks like, but basically, you rest the top of the eyecups on your eyebrows and tilt the binoculars slightly upward. Perhaps its inventors mooreorless and ceasar will elaborate further (and so Bob can tell you that he has no trouble with blackouts with his Kahles binoculars, shown in the second photo .

The view of the SE is fabulouso, and considering what alpha roofs and even second tier roofs cost these days, the SEs still provide the best bang for your buck in premium optics, so they are worth trying. The 12x50 SE is my favorite held held astro bin, the 8x32 SE, my second favorite birding bin (after the 8x30 EII). I really liked the 10x42 SE, too, but it was too lightweight for my shaky hands, at least for daytime use. With the weight back on my face, the 10x an 12x could be held steady enough for casual stargazing, but for best results with stargazing, mounting is always the best method.

Brock

Wachipilotes, (and others)

FYI, the method of using the SE that I described in post #9 is the "MOLCET" technique which Brock writes about in post #13 above.

Bob

I'm one of the lucky ones! It doesn't effect me! Bryce...

It's my last nagging doubt, the squint factor. On the (older) Yosemite 6x30s,
using them with glasses almost completely cured the problem, with full field.
That's a possible solution, too. I need to get to a shop or some pair of SE's
to see what's going on.

ceasar said:

Wachipilotes, (and others)

FYI, the method of using the SE that I described in post #9 is the "MOLCET" technique which Brock writes about in post #13 above.

Bob

Click to expand...

Hello Bob and Brock,

Even if MOLCET method worked, I found that having a special method of using one binocular to be unacceptable. I simply found the 8x32 SE to be unfriendly. The idea that I have to "fix" a binocular by adding "O" rings, simply reinforces the concept that the binocular is at fault.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

Hi Arthur,

The method I described is very close to the way I normally hold binoculars; by bracing their eye cups on my brow ridge at the base of my eyebrows. I just have to make a minute adjustment to use the SEs. People who hold them in a different manner might well have problems with it.

Bob

The opposite of the 'blackout' effect can be seen in the 'no-squint' feature
of the Bushnell Customs. Not sure exactly how they do that.

I have a theory that nearsighted correction aggravates the problem,
so it's a 'design-for' issue.
I have -4 D correction. There is a lot of 'squint' on some binocs without
my glasses and a lot less with glasses on (although I lose field on some).
If I hold a -5D (-200mm) lens against the eyepiece though, I get even less 'squint'.

I haven't dot-glued the correctors onto a pair yet because they aren't coated.
I'm hoping coated ones show up.

OPTIC_NUT said:

The opposite of the 'blackout' effect can be seen in the 'no-squint' feature
of the Bushnell Customs. Not sure exactly how they do that.

I have a theory that nearsighted correction aggravates the problem,
so it's a 'design-for' issue.
I have -4 D correction. There is a lot of 'squint' on some binocs without
my glasses and a lot less with glasses on (although I lose field on some).
If I hold a -5D (-200mm) lens against the eyepiece though, I get even less 'squint'.

I haven't dot-glued the correctors onto a pair yet because they aren't coated.
I'm hoping coated ones show up.

Click to expand...

Could you please define what you mean by "squint?" When I think of squint, I think of Clint:

Squint Eastwood

Brock