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Advice on scopes (1 Viewer)

Thanks everyone, he does have a pair of 10x50 bins so it is a scope I'm after. You've all given considered views. I now have to make up my mind based on the info and opinions you've expressed.
Joanne
 
dbradnum said:
Colin,

You may possibly be right that there is a danger of wasting money here; everyone seems to agree that a really cheap scope is a bad move. However, labelling advocates of cheaper scopes as ignorant and so on isn't likely to fuel constructive debate. The £500 threshold you suggest is just as misleading to a beginner as a recommendation to buy bargain-basement optics.

David,

Hang on a moment; the term "ignorant" is very often misinterpreted and taken to mean stupid. This is not how it is meant; ignorant means uninformed and "not knowing". I have met a lot of thus-defined people who were ignorant about scopes (and many other things as well) and their performance. I have a Swarovski ATS80HD (my wife now has my previous model), an Optolyth 80HD and a Questar Birder. A wealthy friend of mine, after looking through all these models, then went off and bought something which looked as though it had been produced by NASA and promised to "bring distant galaxies into your living room". €1,200's worth of rubbish which only ever came out of the box once.

I agree that Joanne's first post should have given more information and a better idea of her budget. When she stated that she "didn't want to spent hundreds of pounds" I assumed that she was thinking of spending "tens of pounds" on a scope - much better spent on a few bottles of good wine!! I still maintain that £500 or so is the sort of price to pay for a good, second-hand HD/Flourite/ED scope, and I am certainly no fan of the Kowa marque.

Colin
 
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Colin Key said:
I agree that Joanne's first post should have given more information and a better idea of her budget. When she stated that she "didn't want to spent hundreds of pounds" I assumed that she was thinking of spending "tens of pounds" on a scope - much better spent on a few bottles of good wine!! I still maintain that £500 or so is the sort of price to pay for a good, second-hand HD/Flourite/ED scope, and I am certainly no fan of the Kowa marque.

Well my first scope cost less than £100 and served me very well for about 5 years, the next one was under £300 and was used every week for over 10 years. It's only in the last few years that I've been able to afford top end optics, but I'd rather have had a cheap scope before than no scope at all.

I agree that a really cheap scope could be off putting, but there are a few options that are under £300 that give very good views. The already mentioned Opticron MM2 is a great first scope, also the Opticron IS range. The best thing about these scopes is that if you use the HDF eyepiece they perform amazingly well.

As for the need to spend £500+ for a good secondhand ED scope... you can buy a new ED scope for less than that. The Minox 62ED is (just) under £400 including eyepiece, or the new Nikon 50ED which is £299 plus eyepice. Here's a link to a very good little secondhand scope that comes in well under the £500 mark... http://www.cleyspy.co.uk/item.do?item=385

Addition:

another quick look round has found an OPTOLTYH TBG80HD 30xW & s/o Case for £399 - http://www.birdnet.co.uk/2ndhand.html

If you don't need an ED scope you could pick a good seoncdhand scope up for a lot less than that...
 
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dbradnum said:
Returning to the topic, what's the performance of the Minox 62ED like? How does it compare to the Leica equivalent?

Clearly not of the same standard as the Leica, but at less than half the price you woudln't expect it to be. I currently have one on loan to try out as a scope and also to test it's digiscoping potential... The main problem I have with it is the low gearing on the focus, takes a lot of turning to go from close focus (which isn't great) to infinity. As a scope it performs well, nice clear image, the light's been terrible so I've not really managed to get any digiscoping done. I hope to go out birding tomorrow so will give it a proper field test, might even be brave and leave my Swarovski at home... If I do make it out I'll try and do a proper review of the scope later in the week.
 
joannechattaway said:
I need some advice on scopes. What are the features to look for on a beginners scope? I know nothing about scopes. I don't want to spend hundreds of pounds on something wonderful, just something fairly basic. My husband likes gadgets and sort of likes bird watching. I am hoping he'll come with me birdwatching more if he has more to do. I am happy with my bins and camera and thought a scope might be a good Christmas present for him. Thanks.
Joanne

There are all sorts of gadgets you can get. Just ask around see what people use. You can use hand held computers to do bird counts, GPS devices for position. Check a birding magazine, some gadgets will play back bird songs to ID.
 
Colin Key said:
I still maintain that £500 or so is the sort of price to pay for a good, second-hand HD/Flourite/ED scope

Yes, but why do you think that a beginner needs an ED-glass scope (and needs to spend the extra money for it)?
 
I am slightly puzzled here. There are many decent scopes available for £200-£300. Colin is right that a 2nd hand £500 ED scope will outperform them BUT if the buyer can't stretch to that it is surely better to get an entry level model from the likes of Opticron (IS50/60 and MM2) or say a Nikon RAII, Kowa (601) than have no scope at all.
 
All I can figure is that some folks believe that the horrors of a little chromatic aberation or a 10% less-bright-than ultimately possible view are so terrible, that any user will get totally discouraged and give up. Very bizarre.
 
RAH said:
All I can figure is that some folks believe that the horrors of a little chromatic aberation or a 10% less-bright-than ultimately possible view are so terrible, that any user will get totally discouraged and give up. Very bizarre.
There is a possibility that we have been talking about different purposes for the scope. I did recommend an entry-level scope earlier, but I didn't realize, until Duncan pointed it out, that this is a digiscoping forum. If digiscoping is of high priority I would probably have to switch myself into that ">£500 ED"-camp ;).

Ilkka
 
O.K. guys and gals,

I think that it is about time to pack this one in.

I think (sorry Joanne) that the original post was rather at fault in that it was not in the most appropriate forum and there was not sufficient information given to elicit a reasonable response. Rather like someone saying "I don't know much about cars but would like some advice on buying my first one".

We have no idea of knowing what Joanne and her husband's financial situation is, other than that she does not want to spend "hundreds of pounds" on a 'scope for him. He is not an absolute beginner and it now appears that he already owns a 10x50 binocular (make unspecified). Since Joanne is a member of Sussex Ornithological Society I would have thought she would have got some much clearer ideas and suggestions from other members, as well as probably being able to try out their kit.

My figure of £500 was chosen somewhat abitrarily but I stand by it as a minimum for getting something "nice" which would enhance someone's enjoyment of observing and which would still have a resale value if it turned out to be a "dead duck" (although I would have thought that Joanne herself, already a keen birdwatcher and presumably scope-less, would also wish to use it?).

Colin
 
Colin Key said:
My figure of £500 was chosen somewhat abitrarily but I stand by it as a minimum for getting something "nice" which would enhance someone's enjoyment of observing and which would still have a resale value if it turned out to be a "dead duck".

Sorry Colin but this goes to show that you're not reading the thread - did you not notice the links that I posted to a couple of good secondhand ED scopes that were well below your £500 minimum - I guess not.

I have personally tested the following secondhand scopes in the past few months - Opticron ES80, Nikon IIED, Kowa TSN3(?) and Optolyth 80HD. All were in good condition, all worked well for digiscoping and they were all selling for under £400.
 
I'm amused that one of postcardcv's scopes in the "quality under £500" bracket appears to be the same model that Colin owns!


Colin Key said:
I think (sorry Joanne) that the original post was rather at fault in that it was not in the most appropriate forum and there was not sufficient information given to elicit a reasonable response.
As far as I can see, plenty of people on this thread have provided responses (to a fairly standard question) which are more than reasonable, and I'm sure that they will be only too happy to help further if need be.

I hope that Joanne's got some benefit from the thread, and hasn't been put off asking for help here! Please let us know what you end up buying, if anything.
 
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Thanks David for bringing this discussion back to base. I didn't realize that, what I thought was a pretty basic question, would provoke such controversy. Thanks to the various opinions expressed and having now done some research Illike the sound of the Mighty Midget 2 and now my mission is to find one to try out. I accidently put this thread in the digiscoping forum and realizes it should have gone elsewhere.
 
I think the MM2 is a good choice as a starter scope - it will give you/your husband a nice introduction to scopes. If you find you get on well with it you can always improve it by using the Opticron HDf eyepieces. Also if you find you get really into it and end up buying a bigger/better scope in the future the MM2 would still be useful as a travel scope. We have one, it's the scope my wife uses when out birding and it's ideal when travelling and I don't want to take the main (big) scope.

I notice that warehouseexpress have a mail order return one with zoom for £160, could be worth a look.
 
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joannechattaway said:
Thanks David for bringing this discussion back to base. I didn't realize that, what I thought was a pretty basic question, would provoke such controversy. Thanks to the various opinions expressed and having now done some research Illike the sound of the Mighty Midget 2 and now my mission is to find one to try out. I accidently put this thread in the digiscoping forum and realizes it should have gone elsewhere.

nice scope the MM2. Can be used with a shoulder/desk pod or very light tripod

The RSPB may have it at Pulborough Brooks

Kay Optics will be holding an open day at Pagham 18th December should have the MM2
 
I couldn't agree more about the MM2 - I was very impressed with the (admittedly brief) go I had of the scope + zoom eyepiece, in dull weather which really should have got the better of it...
 
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