Digiscoping please help (1 Viewer)

jimmy2faces said:

I have been digiscoping now for 6 months with a mixture of satisfaction. However I have just returned from a 5 hours in the field in fustration. My images are just never sharp, I have concluded this may be for a number of reasons.

• I am rubbish
• my cp990 set up isn't right (I think it is though)
• My tripod can't support the wieght (15 year Slik D70)
• I expect too much

I am desperate to carry on, please let me know any suggestions!! :stuck:

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Ha ha, found the images that led to my fustration it took 57 shots to get this.

In hindsight if I had taken this 3 months ago I would have been pleased - with the new tips I can't wait to get cracking on this weekend . sussed the ISO settings and apperture prioirty - if anyone needs help with this please let me know!

Also got this littlge grebe on the same day. Think the light was the major problem especially with my previous settings.

Those pictures look pretty good to me, so I don't think you are rubbish!!

I think maybe if you are using the Andy Bright settings you may find that he says somewhere that they may provide slightly unsharp pictures. He says he prefers to increase the sharpening on the computer in photoshop or similar than to have pictures that are oversharpened and cannot be rectified.

Maybe this is the answer??????

The other trick I've tried is to tape a piece of paper with an arrow onto the body of the scope and another long strip with numbers onto the focussing ring. I then try to gauge the numbers where it starts to go out of focus at either end of the focus point. I then started at one end and moved the ring in small increments until I got to the other end. However, even though on the LCD screen I'd seen the image go in, then out, of focus, the actual captured images were still on their way to meeting the focus point, let alone going through it. I guess in my case it means that the camera is not taking the same shot as you see on the screen, but in fact is in focus when the screen is slightly out on the long-distance side.
I'll get to see if this is a repeatable thing next week...

If the subject isn't very mobile I'll take some pictures of it then unfocus the scope and refocus it and take some more pictures, doing this several times increases the chances greatly of coming away with some nice sharp photos.
Like I say though, it only really works when the subject is static in the one place but this is the usual case for the kind of birds that are regularly digiscoped.

Jaff :bounce:

On a similar note to the focus-refocus, I found occasionally that moving birds gave some of the clearest shots. You'd get roughly the right focus, and providing the bird wasn't walking in a perfect arc around you, it would at some point walk into the point of focus. The only trick was tracking it and getting enough shots off.

jimmy2faces said:

Ha ha, found the images that led to my fustration it took 57 shots to get this.

In hindsight if I had taken this 3 months ago I would have been pleased - with the new tips I can't wait to get cracking on this weekend . sussed the ISO settings and apperture prioirty - if anyone needs help with this please let me know!

Also got this littlge grebe on the same day. Think the light was the major problem especially with my previous settings.

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Jimmy,
Grebes are one of the hardest birds to digiscope as they always seem to be moving or diving (Pharalopes are difficult too ). Your second photo shows promise. All you needed was the bird to turn his head left into the light. I find they sit around and groom quietly late in the day and with the low light it's a better time to photograph them. The water color is great. The trouble with the 990 is that the speed between frames is a bit slow to capture moving bird actions , unless you are very good at anticipating them.
Keep up the practice , you're getting close, Neil.

jimmy2faces said:

please let me know any suggestions!! :stuck:

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Jimmy,

Sorry if these have been mentioned already, but two points came to my mind:
- try to use your tripod without extending the legs at all (and digiscope sitting on the ground) - you may be right that some "softness" of the images comes from vibration.
- if you have a zoom or an "old generation" fixed eyepiece, you lose some sharpness because of poor eye-relief & vignetting. A new 21xWA (or 32x) eyepiece with 20 mm ER would give you a much wider field-of-view - and a possibility to come closer to the subject => less camera zoom & less atmospherics => sharper images. Trust me - you will be surprised to see this difference!

Your Kowa equipped with a proper tripod and digiscoping eyepieces (even with your 990) is still one of the very best digiscoping setups.

I agree with Neil - you *will* get there with some minor adjustments.

Ilkka

iporali said:

Jimmy,

Sorry if these have been mentioned already, but two points came to my mind:
- try to use your tripod without extending the legs at all (and digiscope sitting on the ground) - you may be right that some "softness" of the images comes from vibration.
- if you have a zoom or an "old generation" fixed eyepiece, you lose some sharpness because of poor eye-relief & vignetting. A new 21xWA (or 32x) eyepiece with 20 mm ER would give you a much wider field-of-view - and a possibility to come closer to the subject => less camera zoom & less atmospherics => sharper images. Trust me - you will be surprised to see this difference!

Your Kowa equipped with a proper tripod and digiscoping eyepieces (even with your 990) is still one of the very best digiscoping setups.

I agree with Neil - you *will* get there with some minor adjustments.

Ilkka

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Yep thanks guys. I have the 32xWA lens so I think that's okay. Tripod is very shakey and will upgrade at some point, but like most of the posters on here suggest there are more modifications for me to make before I start to blame my equiptment - bad sportsmen and all that

This has been a real eye opener for me, and thanks for all the support.

Think I may even try somewhere tonight...

jimmy2faces said:

I have the 32xWA lens so I think that's okay.

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It is optically great, but if it is - as I assume - the "earlier" design with some 12-14 mm eye-relief, it is not a very good fit with a CP990. If you take a picture at 1x camera zoom (38 mm) and see large black frames around a small image circle, you have the old model (I have had the same scope/eyepiece). With the new-style eyepieces (21x or 32x) you could use almost entire zoom range of the 990 - and that does make a big difference!

Ilkka

iporali said:

It is optically great, but if it is - as I assume - the "earlier" design with some 12-14 mm eye-relief, it is not a very good fit with a CP990. If you take a picture at 1x camera zoom (38 mm) and see large black frames around a small image circle, you have the old model (I have had the same scope/eyepiece). With the new-style eyepieces (21x or 32x) you could use almost entire zoom range of the 990 - and that does make a big difference!

Ilkka

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Yes it's the old one and you have described exactly what happens. Would anew one help? how much did it set you back?

jimmy2faces said:

Would anew one help? how much did it set you back?

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Well - I switched to a Swaro just before Kowa introduced the new eyepieces . Not that I am regretting, but if the long-ER eyepieces had been available, I would have "upgraded" just the eyepieces. In WarehouseExpress a 21xW is £149 and a 32xW £159. The 21x is maybe the best digiscoping eyepiece, but to get those nice and sharp images, you have to be quite close to the target. If you use the eyepiece also for birdwatching or digiscope mainly from hides etc. where it is not possible/easy to walk closer, the 32x may be more versatile.

Would a new one help? If possible, try the new eyepieces side by side with yours and see what you think - it may be a real eye-opener for your 990 But having said all this, some Kowa owners have had great success with that old 32x (like some of IanF's early pics).

Ilkka

Well,well,well!

I couldn't take it anymore and armed with the new techniques took myslef down to blacktoft sands in the late evening sunlight. And all I can say is RESULT! B

i was so pleased and so into the digiscoping, that the guy next to me siad there's three spoonbills there - and I hadn't vwen noticed bonkers!!

Check out the results though I am so pleased I think there is real improvemnt here. There is sharpness like I have never had before, thanks for all your help guys! Let me know your thoughts on what else I could do now..

I think you've got it Jimmy. I had a close look at the avocet and the eye is pin sharp - well done. In this light probably a good idea to bracket the exposure as it can be a bit tricky with reflections off water and light colored birds. I fiddled with the avocet a bit. Hope you don't mind. Neil.

Neil said:

I think you've got it Jimmy. I had a close look at the avocet and the eye is pin sharp - well done. In this light probably a good idea to bracket the exposure as it can be a bit tricky with reflections off water and light colored birds. I fiddled with the avocet a bit. Hope you don't mind. Neil.

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Interesting -what d I need to do?

I just adjusted the levels a little, brightened the Shadows (you could select the head and brighten it seperately ) and Unsharp Mask a little. Neil.

Hi Ilkka...I am looking to try my hand at digiscopeing but I have so much to learn.
How close is quite close in the case of the 21xW eyepiece?

regards....Mike

By George I think he's got it! Well done Marcus, the pictures are great.

However, you're on a slippery slope now and digiscoping will eat away at you until you reach the point where you ignore the White-rumped Sandpiper that's on the other side of the lake because your too busy digiscoping a summer plumaged Blackwit.

Have lot's fun and I look forward to seeing your pictures in the gallery.
Jaff

Mike66 said:

How close is quite close in the case of the 21xW eyepiece?

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Hi Mike!

A good question . It depends a lot on which camera you have and how big birds you would like to digiscope. In my experience you get the best pics at widest possible camera zoom settings (just enough to remove vignetting). A bird which looks good through the scope is often very small in digiscoped pictures. If you try to zoom-in all the way, the subject becomes larger, but it often looks less sharp due to emphasized focus problems, shake, atmospherics and camera zoom not being sharp at the extremes.

To get a good looking "portrait" of a small sparrow-sized bird with a wide-angled 20x, you have to be within 10 meters. Large birds, like swans, herons etc. can be farther away (up to 30-50m?), but generally: the closer, the better. The target through a 20x is 33% smaller than through a 30x eyepiece - not much, but sometimes all the power helps.

Attached is an example of my very first trials with a Swaro 20xSW & Panasonic FX01. A young redstart came to our back yard to have a bath - the distance was about 9 meters, and the camera zoom corresponded to 51mm. The Kowa 21x would behave very similarly to the Swaro (except that it has much better eye-relief).

Regards,

Ilkka

Marcus,

Couple years here and still learning. Seems it goes in stages - I find something that works then stick with it until something better works, etc. I went through the aperture/shutter priorty and even tried Andy's macro suggestion and have ended up using Scene Setting. I use an Oly C-60 with Scene set so max DOF is achieved.

One piece of equipment we have in common is the Kowa (sort of - I use the 821). If you care to look - these are my better results http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/9499

My mentor is Forcreeks who uses the same scope as yours - a real pro, you may want to look up his gallery also. The scope's focus is one of the best, I've found it's only my limitations that screw it up. My tri-focals have caused problems too. Reason I'm talking focus is the reed bunting pics which I love. Tough to analyse but your focus of the right one seems to be a fraction in front of subject. I focus using the monitor and use an extend a view (see products reviews).

After you have gone through the confusion stage try to simplify. I like to look at it as a simple 3 or 4 stage process.
1 Aim
2 Focus
3 Shoot
4 Maybe develope

Number 1
My adapter is easily removable and when in woods camera is generally off but when subjects are close it goes on. I use a sight to get onto the bird and have a smooth tripod head to keep on the subject. Sometimes I use my nose to nudge the contraption to center the subject since my right hand is on the focus and left on the release.

Number 2
To test focus get on a good viewer program and study the pixels close up. You can tell if movement has caused a blurred image or focus. Movement causes a directional
arrangement to the pixels and focus a uniform arrangement. The equipment can do incredible things which I found out when I got the Ruby throated hummer.

Number 3
Easy part as long as the equipment dosn't move. For faster subjects I'm just learning to use burst. Just tried it this morning and found I can take 4 pics in just over a second. Forcreeks is experimenting with a new camera and has implied catching a moving bird with a digiscope - I bet he will.

Number 4
Andy B has discussed using programs to remove abberation, etc. I think most people opt for expensive equipment rather than developing the negative. You can't fix a bad image but just about every good image can be improved. I've had a couple pics where one end of the bird was just out of focus so I fixed it. Or a bright spot off the subject ruins the composition - just fix it. After all the work Ansel Adams did to get a good negative he still used burning and dodging to improve it.

Anyway thats my 2 bits worth -good luck

Joe

Thanks Ilkka.... that helps, perhaps you would advise me further.
I am looking to buy a Kowa TSN 823M scope together with either a 32xW or a 21xW eye piece and a Slik D3 tripod with Slik D3 head.
This will cost me some £930 from Warehouse Express, leaving some £200 for the camera, this is about my budget.
I figure this will give me a fair chance of decent pics as far as the equipment is concerned.
...Is this a good choice?

regards....Mike