Tundra Bean Goose? (1 Viewer)

Andrew · Dec 22, 2003

Folks, I have written up my diary and my deductions say Tundra Bean Geese. Am I right?

HH75 · Dec 22, 2003

Hi Andrew,
I've only seen 1 Taiga Bean and no Tundras,also 40 or so Pink-feet.It doesn't look like a Pink-foot to me,and Taiga should be longer-billed and longer-necked,so it would seem that you are correct,but bear in mind that I could easily be incorrect!Wait and see what others with more experience think would be my advice,but it's looking good!
Harry H

Edward woodwood · Dec 22, 2003

legs are orange?

Edward woodwood · Dec 22, 2003

pink-feet should usually have more pink on the bill
structurally looks good as long as legs are orange#
back should be dark as well as flanks without the bluey-grey cast that can be seen on PF - seems to show this but hard to say from one pic
why do you ask Andrew?

Steve G · Dec 22, 2003

Bill size, head shape & leg colour look good for Bean goose (Pinkfeet are 2-a-penny up here). I've never seen tundra Beans but there is a flock of Taiga Beans in Central Scotland (Slamanan area). These birds seem more cumbersome with a more Swanlike neck.......Would be interested to see what the big boys say.

HH75 · Dec 22, 2003

Hi Andrew,
On consulting the Collins Bird Guide,it would appear that it is a Tundra Bean.
Pink-feet usually show greyish upperparts,but some are browner above.However,the following points would seem to point towards Tundra Bean:
-legs appear orange(hard to tell)
-pale on bill is orange,not pink,and also more limited in extent than in Pink-foot or most Taiga Bean
-dark tail band looks blacker than in Pink-foot(which has a greyish tail band)
-there is an obvious "grinning patch" at the gape(as in Ross's Goose),which isn't shown by Taiga Bean and apparently isn't shown by Pink-foot either(?)
Harry H

Edward woodwood · Dec 22, 2003

the colour on the bill can be either orange or pink
the pink is as result of a mutation

sometimes a description is worth more than a pic....

Michael Frankis · Dec 22, 2003

I'd agree with Tundra Bean - the legs and bill middle are definitely orange on my screen and the mantle is also too dark for Pinkfoot, and the nech doesn't look long enough for Taiga Bean. This bird has a 'Bewick's Swan' look to its shape, while Taiga has a 'Whooper Swan' look to its shape.

I'd hazard a guess too that Taiga Bean would be an even bigger rarity in Devon, as they are hardier birds than Tundra Beans and tend to stay further north in winter (as Steve points out, it's all Taiga Beans in Scotland)

Michael

HH75 · Dec 22, 2003

Hi Michael,
As I mentioned in another thread,we get Taigas far more regularly than Tundra:it's a shorter flight for the former to get here from the Scottish wintering grounds than for a Tundra to reach here from the Netherlands(with lots of inviting habitat to keep them in England!).
With both forms being rarities,I'd say that we're not overlooking Tundras as Taigas!
Harry H

Bluetail · Dec 22, 2003

Michael Frankis said:
I'd hazard a guess too that Taiga Bean would be an even bigger rarity in Devon, as they are hardier birds than Tundra Beans and tend to stay further north in winter (as Steve points out, it's all Taiga Beans in Scotland)

You're right, Michael. I've not checked the records, but all the Devon Beans that I can remember have been Tundras.

Jason

Edward woodwood · Dec 22, 2003

we've got this on two therads at ther mo - bit confusing

the beans in England away from the two main wintering areas are mostly Tundras

there are two extralimital forms too middendorfii and serrirostris - the latter allied with Tundra rossicus, the former with Taiga fabalis. Don't know bout the range and 'diagnosability' of these though....

Michael Frankis · Dec 22, 2003

Hi Tim,

the beans in England away from the two main wintering areas are mostly Tundras

Not true, in Northumberland we get far more Taigas than Tundras. It is only southern England (Yare Valley excepted) which gets more Tundras than Taigas.

there are two extralimital forms too middendorfii and serrirostris - the latter allied with Tundra rossicus, the former with Taiga fabalis.

Allied by breeding habitat choice, but not necessarily by genetics - serrirostris is e.g. larger and longer-billed than fabalis, let alone rossicus. It may well end up as a four-way split, once the research is done.

Michael

Edward woodwood · Dec 22, 2003

are not the beans away from the fabalis wintering areas mostly Tundras? - this is from a Birding World article and relates to winters 96/97

Michael Frankis · Dec 22, 2003

Hi Tim,

Probably written by someone from down south who doesn't have a clue what's going on in other parts of the country

Northumberland, I'd say the ratio is somewhere in the region of at least 10 Taiga : 1 Tundra (and no, neither of them has a regular wintering area here).

Michael

Edward woodwood · Dec 22, 2003

yes Michael

those southerners think the country revolves around them!

Andrew · Dec 22, 2003

Tim,

I asked because I felt confident in it but wanted back up from the big boys on BF. I have already put it out as Tundra. I did not find it, it was found yesterday but simply put out as a Bean. I think it fair to put out the full diary entry to show the details in flight but I think what I saw will simply confirm it as a Bean not whether it was Tundra or Taiga. Will place in it's own post below. . . .

Andrew · Dec 22, 2003

. . . . . we just turned off at the Post Office and crossed the railway line before parking up. The path to the old railway line was extremely muddy and slippery. As soon as we reached the start of the railway line I scanned the fields and found the two Tundra Bean Geese grazing in a newly sown crop field. I could watch them for about five minutes before they disappeared down the edge of the field. I wanted some pictures, so I went as close as I could get to them only to find they had moved to the next field. Doubling back and carrying on along the railway line took me to the next field. I walked slowly towards them and got close enough for a couple of photographs before a couple with a loose and excited dog came my way. This was too much for the geese who became very nervous and wary of the dog. I called the couple over and explained the rare geese presence, even showing them the pictures on the camera. Despite seeming amazed by the geese they continued to walk towards them much to my amazement. Needless to say they flew off and circled the fields before passing straight over me to some fields north of me and out of sight. So far I had taken notes of their characteristics which were a small orange band on a dark bill set on a dark head with no white feathers to the base of the bill. The neck also had grooves in the feathers running vertically. There was no barring on the breast at all either. The legs and feet were a deep and bright orange. The overall body was not dissimilar to a Greylag Goose but a lot darker as far as I was concerned with many of the wing feathers having white edges. The rear undersides were a clean white as with all Grey Geese. I managed to see some good details while they were in flight including the tertials and secondaries of the wings having white barring while the primaries were a plainer greyish brown overall. The Collins shows the primaries to have a regular grey and black variation in the feathers, while observing this I did not notice this as I was trying to take in as much detail of a moving bird. The undersides of the wings appeared darker than the rest of the body. There was a wide dark curved band on the tail separated from the dark rump and upper tail coverts by an equally curved narrow white band. The end of the tail was a white edge too. That is about the best details I managed to notice of the birds. I tried to relocate them from the railway line and another birder came along. I pointed their general location to him and set off towards it. I gave up after a while and was walking back when he waved me back. They were found again and I got a couple more photographs before they took off again and settled near a barn on the edge of Stoke Canon. . . . .

Andrew · Dec 22, 2003

Tim,

Another reason for asking was to see what the trained eyes picked out from the picture. I have more if that will help but the one I posted is the best I have. Only managed four.

Michael Frankis · Dec 22, 2003

Hi Andrew,

Nice account!

wary of the dog. I called the couple over and explained the rare geese presence, even showing them the pictures on the camera. Despite seeming amazed by the geese they continued to walk towards them much to my amazement. Needless to say they flew off

All too typical, sad to say. Some doggists seem to think the world exists for their mutts and they won't do a thing to be helpful. Bet they didn't clean up behind it, either.

The neck also had grooves in the feathers running vertically.

That proves they were adults; all adult geese show this, but it is less obvious on juveniles.

with many of the wing feathers having white edges

A useful character for telling Bean from Whitefronts, which don't have the white edges; also more conspicuous than the same white fringes on Pinkfeet, as the white contrasts more with the darker centre of the feather than it does with the paler centre on a Pinkfoot

Michael

Stephen Dunstan · Dec 22, 2003

Andrew,

Looks like Tundra to me. Contra Tim I think the pics are more use than a description would have been.

If you despair of dog walkers try having 2 Shorelarks on your patch (Blackpool beach) which is the canine equivalent of the M25!

Stephen.

Tundra Bean Goose? (1 Viewer)

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