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Water Pipit? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Steve Round
- Start date
Stephen Dunstan
Registered User
Steve,
With legs that colour I'd be tempted to say it's neither and is a Scandinavian Rock Pipit. It isn't a Meadow, but Water and Scan Rock can be tricky to separate from images.
It also seems to have too much streaking for a Water Pipit, and the eye stripe and wing bars should both be more obvious on a classic bird. It certainly isn't a Meadow Pipit.
There, that's pinned my colours to the mast!
Stephen.
With legs that colour I'd be tempted to say it's neither and is a Scandinavian Rock Pipit. It isn't a Meadow, but Water and Scan Rock can be tricky to separate from images.
It also seems to have too much streaking for a Water Pipit, and the eye stripe and wing bars should both be more obvious on a classic bird. It certainly isn't a Meadow Pipit.
There, that's pinned my colours to the mast!
Stephen.
Stephen Dunstan
Registered User
Before I am corrected I of course mean supercilium rather than eye stripe!
Stephen.
Stephen.
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Yep Agreed - a littoralis Rock pipit, which according to submitted records is non existent at this particular Wapit hot spot. Nice bird and fab photos.
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Steve Round
Well-known member
Thanks,
Stephen and Jane.
Do you think that all the Water Pipits that have been sighted there are in fact these Rock Pipits Jane?
Steve
Stephen and Jane.
Do you think that all the Water Pipits that have been sighted there are in fact these Rock Pipits Jane?
Steve
Steve Round
Well-known member
Do you think I could include this as a new species on my website as I already have petrosus?
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Steve - sorry, but its just a Rock Pipit. Chris is having a laugh.. he knows that I worry that most of the records of Water Pipits at Neston, especially the big counts, are Scandi - Rock pipits.
They can have white outer webs, relatively unstreaked mantles, good supers and white wing bars, but to get them all on one bird you have to very unlucky I guess!
Send the record into the Cheshire raities committee though
They can have white outer webs, relatively unstreaked mantles, good supers and white wing bars, but to get them all on one bird you have to very unlucky I guess!
Send the record into the Cheshire raities committee though
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Here is another - in the gallery, from lat Oct
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/data/527/4350Rock_pipit_-_littoralis.JPG
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/data/527/4350Rock_pipit_-_littoralis.JPG
Steve Round
Well-known member
Jane Turner said:
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Oh dear - am I ~that~ predictable...
I guess this is why
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=9543&highlight=Water
I guess this is why
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=9543&highlight=Water
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With all the littoralis Rock Pipit photos that seem to show up here on BF, I was needing reminding of what Water Pipits actually look like (and indeed if they exist at all - it's a while since I've seen one):
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1966/password//sort/1/cat/527/page/1
Compare and contrast.
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1966/password//sort/1/cat/527/page/1
Compare and contrast.
Stephen Dunstan
Registered User
Andrew,
It is always difficult to judge these things from pictures. To take one well photographed individual, the Water Pipit at Leighton Moss in front of the bay window hide, some pics look clear cut and others make you wonder and yet it is the same bird throughout.
Stephen.
It is always difficult to judge these things from pictures. To take one well photographed individual, the Water Pipit at Leighton Moss in front of the bay window hide, some pics look clear cut and others make you wonder and yet it is the same bird throughout.
Stephen.
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Fifebirder said:
and I'm not at all confident that this is Wapit either... it might be, but I don't think its certain by any means
I suppose the supercillium's not that good, although I think otherwise it's fine from what we can see. The underparts are much more obviously 'Water Pipit' and it looks to have two good whitish wing bars (although it's a shame the upperparts are in shadow). I take your point that it's difficult to be sure it's a Water Pipit from one picture, but this one really doesn't look much like a littoralis to me.
Edward woodwood
Member
evenin all
alstrom and mild state that most petrosus/littoralis are not safely assignable to subspecies, mainly as some petrosus are very similar to littoralis
what are the features in the original pics separating the bird from a bog-standard petrosus?
post 15 appears to show a Wapit
alstrom and mild state that most petrosus/littoralis are not safely assignable to subspecies, mainly as some petrosus are very similar to littoralis
what are the features in the original pics separating the bird from a bog-standard petrosus?
post 15 appears to show a Wapit
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Stephen Dunstan
Registered User
Tim,
Look at the rockit photos in that book and tell me how many relate to 100% certain petrosus given date and location. By my reckoning there were none. If that is how seriously they tackled the issue I would hardly call it rigorous - just one photo of a bird in summer at a British nest site would have been a start.
My experience of birds at British nesting areas is that they sometimes have a blue-grey tint to the head. I have never seen one that looked like a classic littoralis. I know people have seen them on occasion but they are rare, so if it looks like sum plum lit then it's probably 'cos it is one.
In winter plumage some people think they can be separated and some think they can't. Try my approach with birds in South Cumbria - watch them all winter and form some views then see how they look before they depart in spring.
Stephen.
Look at the rockit photos in that book and tell me how many relate to 100% certain petrosus given date and location. By my reckoning there were none. If that is how seriously they tackled the issue I would hardly call it rigorous - just one photo of a bird in summer at a British nest site would have been a start.
My experience of birds at British nesting areas is that they sometimes have a blue-grey tint to the head. I have never seen one that looked like a classic littoralis. I know people have seen them on occasion but they are rare, so if it looks like sum plum lit then it's probably 'cos it is one.
In winter plumage some people think they can be separated and some think they can't. Try my approach with birds in South Cumbria - watch them all winter and form some views then see how they look before they depart in spring.
Stephen.
Edward woodwood
Member
thanks Stephen
Per Alstrom is pretty rigourous as a rule....I know very little about this area of British Birding and would appreciate some help to make headway with it....it's like walking thru treacle for me!
anyone shed any light on the bird in the pic though?
Per Alstrom is pretty rigourous as a rule....I know very little about this area of British Birding and would appreciate some help to make headway with it....it's like walking thru treacle for me!
anyone shed any light on the bird in the pic though?
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Almost certain the bird at the very top is littoralis - wouldn't put the mortgage on it.. but I'd bet my optics on it... Post 15 - undies look good for Wapit, mantle lines don't though... face pattern not brilliant either... can't see the second outermost TF!
