What's with Sibley? (1 Viewer)

gthang · Apr 6, 2004

No, I'm not saying that the Sibley books are bad. They're awesome.

It's just that I've had the Eastern guide for quite a while now, and only yesterday did I go out and buy the Western version.

The differences were noticeable right away. 40 more pages in the Western than Eastern (473 vs 433); Western has drawings of the western plummages of birds, also shows maps for the birds "that barely enter Eastern N.A. in Black Hills, South Dakota"; among other things.

But what really irks me is the Identification helpers, such as the foraging techniques, diving motions, Osprey feeding habits, Drinking methods of pigeons and doves, gaping mouth of nightjars, and Downy/Hairy Woodpecker subspecies variation, are in the Western version, but not the Eastern version.

What gives? I didn't know about the nightjar's gaping mouth until i got the Western? couldn't the information have been in the Eastern? I'm thinking that there was a page limit, or something that prevented Sibley from having other useful information in the Eastern book.

Sorry to rant, but that's kept me up all night...

weather · Apr 6, 2004

I've been using the Eastern version and didn't think of even looking at the Western. Now I have to run to the book store and get the Western...Thanks! (sarcastic)

Mike

gthang · Apr 6, 2004

Oh yeah, the Western's awesome. You've got a trogon and a quetzal in the book Western version!

Katy Penland · Apr 6, 2004

Aside from suggesting that you write to Sibley and ask him (since none of us could possibly know the reasons for the editorial decisions made), please bear in mind that the reason for the split of the "big" (North American) Sibley book into east and west regions was for convenience in taking into the field. Neither east nor west is meant to be a comprehensive analysis of each species. Ergo, some information is, of necessity, going to have to be dumped to keep the sizes manageable.

However, even in the "big" book not all bird behaviors can be portrayed. Hence the "Sibley Guide to Bird Life and Behavior," where you will find all the "foraging techniques, diving motions, Osprey feeding habits, Drinking methods of pigeons and doves, gaping mouth of nightjars" which, while helpful, may not necessarily be what's considered a "field mark" for identification purposes for the respective species and thus not included in a field-sized guide.

gthang · Apr 6, 2004

Fair enough.

It's just that I'm a nut for information. If something about a bird doesn't seem right, i will search and search until i'm positive about an ID.

Tero · Apr 6, 2004

I would not rely on Sibley alone. For familiar birds, it is all you need. I have Eastern and then the full, which never goes on trips.

There was a complaint about us lacking an ideal guide for North America. After looking at a few European guides, I have to agree. Text and pictures should both be of value.

Katy Penland · Apr 6, 2004

Tero said:
I would not rely on Sibley alone. For familiar birds, it is all you need. I have Eastern and then the full, which never goes on trips.

There was a complaint about us lacking an ideal guide for North America. After looking at a few European guides, I have to agree. Text and pictures should both be of value.

Absolutely. I have 7 field guides for NA birds (and two shelves' worth of other NA-related bird natural history, behaviors, etc. etc.) simply because no one guide could possibly cover all the bases. I'd *kill* for the $3,000 subscription to the 18-volume "Birds of North America"! As of day before yesterday, there were only 3 sets left. :-(

For you European/UK birders, what is your opinion of "Birds of Europe" by Mullarney et al (1999)? It seemed to be pretty good when I was in Germany and Wales last year. Is there a better, or adjunct, I should get before my next trip?

Bluetail · Apr 6, 2004

Hi Katy. The only guide better than the Mullarny field guide is the large format version of the same book! Blown up to a decent size the stupendous paintings are just awesome!

Jason

pduxon · Apr 6, 2004

The Mullarney is wonderful. Although it is a bit big to carry on a summers afternoon, when you have no large jacket or rucksack. A collins light might be handy.

Katy Penland · Apr 6, 2004

Thanks for that, guys! I'll check out the "Collins light" as well. I presume that's a book and not a headlamp of some kind for birding at night?

pduxon · Apr 6, 2004

Katy Penland said:
Thanks for that, guys! I'll check out the "Collins light" as well. I presume that's a book and not a headlamp of some kind for birding at night?

sorry Katy - there is no such thing, I'd like them to produce a Collins light (I refuse to type the other way

)

KC Foggin · Apr 6, 2004

gthang said:
Fair enough.

It's just that I'm a nut for information. If something about a bird doesn't seem right, i will search and search until i'm positive about an ID.

Hi gthang. I highly recommend Sibley's Guide to Bird Behavior as well and also take a look at Peterson's Field Guide. Another, I highly recommend.

Michael Frankis · Apr 7, 2004

The Collins Bird Guide is stunning, but the Lars Jonsson Birds of Europe is very nearly as good - that too got rave reviews when it came out (several years before the Collins)

Michael

weather · Apr 7, 2004

I agree with Tero. I have at least 4 field guides and several subscriptions to birding mags. I also use the internet alot. I have at least 10 birdbases in my favorites
drop down menu. I remember seeing a hawk flying across a field and trying to remember all the field marks. I couldn't find the right fit in 3 fields guides, but narrowed it down to 3 possibles. Only untill I went to my trusty Kaufman's, did I see the nice arrow pointing to the white band on the Northern Harrier, I knew I had my bird.
Because I have so many books on birds, my wife won't let me buy the Western version as I stated I was going to do. (God, I'm soooo whooped. Sorry guys!)

Michael

piglet · Apr 7, 2004

We've got the Western Sibley. I find it a great book - my only complaint is that Alberta and British Columbia are in the wrong place on the map at the back of the book! Pretty big typo!

gthang · Apr 7, 2004

Wow, I didn't notice that typo!

Using that knowledge, i went to my Eastern version, and yes, the typo is there as well. I can only assume that the other Sibley books have it as well.

PS. Is there another province of Canada?
My map software (Microsoft Streets & Trips 2001) shows a province called Nunavut:

Strix · Apr 7, 2004

My guess is that it's a work in progress. Maybe the Eastern got published before the Western, and then he decided to throw some more drawings in the pocket sized ones. Books like NG and Peterson are on 4th and 5th editions, but the big Sibley was the first edition. You'll notice the pocket maps are greatly improved from the big Sibley, I assume things in these books will continue to change with new editions.

gthang, where have you been? Did the creation of a province slip past you?

very boring banned member · Apr 7, 2004

Michael Frankis said:
The Collins Bird Guide is stunning, but the Lars Jonsson Birds of Europe is very nearly as good - that too got rave reviews when it came out (several years before the Collins)

Michael

Jonsson's guide is more of "how to confuse with birds", Mullarney et al is a "petersonic" guide "how to clearly tell them apart". (In Finnish version) the Jonsson text is poor and especially voice descriptions worth not-much. I donated that book to my unemployed friend years ago.

Of the Collins, for me the light version is better, because it fits in a (large) pocket.

samuel walker · Apr 7, 2004

field guides

weather said:
I agree with Tero. I have at least 4 field guides and several subscriptions to birding mags. I also use the internet alot. I have at least 10 birdbases in my favorites
drop down menu. I remember seeing a hawk flying across a field and trying to remember all the field marks. I couldn't find the right fit in 3 fields guides, but narrowed it down to 3 possibles. Only untill I went to my trusty Kaufman's, did I see the nice arrow pointing to the white band on the Northern Harrier, I knew I had my bird.
Because I have so many books on birds, my wife won't let me buy the Western version as I stated I was going to do. (God, I'm soooo whooped. Sorry guys!)

Michael

I started with what I thought was the first name in birding, Audubon It was my wife who discovered that it wasan inferior guide.I let her pick the next one.She chose Peterson's Eastern bird.That is now my guide.As good as the book is it is nearly worthless without the complimentary CD ROM.That is the whole book on CD plus the calls,songs and helpful quizes.
Sam

gthang · Apr 7, 2004

Gthang could not be found. He is presumed living under a rock.

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