Binocular Suggestion by optical experts (1 Viewer)

cnick6 · Aug 1, 2014

Here's a strange question... and perhaps I already can guess the answer, but here it goes anyway...

I own the Leica 8x Monovid. It's an incredible piece of glass and optical quality. Whites are white and Blacks are black -- the sharpness is unlike anything I've ever used...

So, is there a binocular that can match the optical quality/sharpness and punch of the Monovid?

I am planning a trip to Cabelas to check out an Ultravid HD model (if they have one handy.) It's a 20 miles away so I'll call ahead to be sure...

I presume the Swarovski EL models would probably match the performance of the Leica models..? Is it safe to assume that I'll need to spend some $$$ to get that same level of optical perfection?

I'm not in any rush but every time I use the Monovid I find it hard to go back to my Nikons!

:cat:

edwincjones · Aug 1, 2014

take the monovid and compare the optics with the binoculars

my GUESS is leica used the same optics in some of their binoculars,
but which one may be hard, or impossible to discover

edj

cnick6 · Aug 1, 2014

edwincjones said:
take the monovid and compare the optics with the binoculars

Ed, yeah I plan to take it with me to Cabelas when I get a chance to head up there. It looks like the specifications (of coatings) match the Ultravid Colorline series -- so that should be similar to a Monovid x 2... and the price isn't going to bankrupt me...

Just to clarify my original question, I guess what I'm looking for are known brands/models that can match the optical quality. I have a feeling that is a short list however.

My Nikon's are quite good but not perfect. If I could just ratchet them up a notch to match the optics of the Monovid then I'd be in a happy place.

WJC · Aug 1, 2014

"I'm not in any rush but every time I use the Monovid I find it hard to go back to my Nikons!"

That should depend on WHICH Nikon. Some are alphas; some are just re-branded. Buying a name went out YEARS ago!

If you want endless selection, go to the Quil Ceda Cabelas (See Glen); if you want knowledge and integrity go to Captain's on 15th at Interbay (see Skip). Their selection is not as big. But with Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, Nikon, Kowa, and others, I think what you want will be covered nicely. If you still have questions, we're here for ya.

Bill

ronh · Aug 1, 2014

A single telescope can be tweaked to a higher level of precision than a binocular, because the binocular telescopes must be misaligned internally more or less to make them point optically in exactly the same direction. But if the binocular is made well in the first place, and the top ranks are, that will be a just about invisibly small effect.

Everything else being equal, two eyes are better than one at resolving detail. Theoretically, at least according to the theory I like, the improvement with two eyes over one is is a whopping 40%. Try it naked eye to see how it seems to you. Most people say they can see better through a binocular than a monocular.

Ron

cnick6 · Aug 1, 2014

WJC said:
That should depend on WHICH Nikon. Some are alphas; some are just re-branded. Buying a name went out YEARS ago!

My primary is the Monarch 5 20x56. I also have the Monarch 12x42 ATB. I just tried the Monarch 7 10x30 but had the light splinter issue.

WJC said:
If you want endless selection, go to the Quil Ceda Cabelas (See Glen); if you want knowledge and integrity go to Captain's on 15th at Interbay (see Skip). Their selection is not as big. But with Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski, Nikon, Kowa, and others, I think what you want will be covered nicely. If you still have questions, we're here for ya.

Thanks Bill for the local tips. I was planning to go to that Cabelas next week. I've seen the Captain's web site and would like to drop by some time.

edwincjones · Aug 1, 2014

I agree with ronh,

probable most of the top of the line binoculars will show no/little noticeable difference other than color of the coatings

edj

perterra · Aug 1, 2014

These days I would bet the list of binoculars that would equal it is longer than you imagine. There are some superb optics out there, all within a hair of the best.

WJC · Aug 1, 2014

edwincjones said:
I agree with ronh,

probable most of the top of the line binoculars will show no/little noticeable difference other than color of the coatings

edj

My post doc optics friends keep dinging me on this, so I will make the technically accurate comment and then return to referring to the "color" of the coatings.

The colorful fluorides used . . . don't have a color! They make you SEE certain colors, based on the wavelength of light they allow through and those they don't.

While it may not be accurate, I will keep referring to the color, with reality used sparingly to keep from confusing folks; most of whom couldn't care less.

There are two kinds of light: glows that illuminate and glares that obscure! I think glares should be used sparingly.

Bill

WJC · Aug 1, 2014

ronh said:
A single telescope can be tweaked to a higher level of precision than a binocular, because the binocular telescopes must be misaligned internally more or less to make them point optically in exactly the same direction. But if the binocular is made well in the first place, and the top ranks are, that will be a just about invisibly small effect.

Everything else being equal, two eyes are better than one at resolving detail. Theoretically, at least according to the theory I like, the improvement with two eyes over one is is a whopping 40%. Try it naked eye to see how it seems to you. Most people say they can see better through a binocular than a monocular.

Ron

And while I'm in a snotty mood, I would like to ignore my my recent comments to warn any newbies out there that Ron is talking about contrast and resolution--NOT light grasp, as many may take that to be.

The difference is caused mainly by the train of invisible "temperature cells" that happen to be in front of each objective lens at any instant. They are never--and can be never--the same. Thus, subtleties in contrast and resolution will be different for each eye.

Now, please, remember what I said, but forget I said it! It's too geeky for me.

Bill

NDhunter · Aug 1, 2014

cnick6 said:
Ed, yeah I plan to take it with me to Cabelas when I get a chance to head up there. It looks like the specifications (of coatings) match the Ultravid Colorline series -- so that should be similar to a Monovid x 2... and the price isn't going to bankrupt me...

Just to clarify my original question, I guess what I'm looking for are known brands/models that can match the optical quality. I have a feeling that is a short list however.

My Nikon's are quite good but not perfect. If I could just ratchet them up a notch to match the optics of the Monovid then I'd be in a happy place.

I have recently been spending some time with my Nikon Rangefinder,
a Monarch 1200 yd. model, and testing its range finding ability.

These are a 7x25 monocular, and when using it for some time, I find
my eyes very tired after using. It is the same thing when I use my
spotting scope, I cannot wait to use my binoculars.

If you like your Leica monocular, you do need to update to a nice optic
you can use with "both eyes". Your monocular is a
8x20, so the Ultravid would be a very nice choice. If you want a
binocular for better all around use, consider 8x32 or 8x42, both
better and easier to use all around than the little fiddly 8x20 size.

A trip to Cabelas seems in order, and have fun, they usually have a
nice selection. Don't expect to find the colorline, Cabelas does not sell
that line, too much bling.

Jerry

brocknroller · Aug 2, 2014

cnick6 said:
Here's a strange question... and perhaps I already can guess the answer, but here it goes anyway...

I own the Leica 8x Monovid. It's an incredible piece of glass and optical quality. Whites are white and Blacks are black -- the sharpness is unlike anything I've ever used...

So, is there a binocular that can match the optical quality/sharpness and punch of the Monovid?

I am planning a trip to Cabelas to check out an Ultravid HD model (if they have one handy.) It's a 20 miles away so I'll call ahead to be sure...

I presume the Swarovski EL models would probably match the performance of the Leica models..? Is it safe to assume that I'll need to spend some $$$ to get that same level of optical perfection?

I'm not in any rush but every time I use the Monovid I find it hard to go back to my Nikons!

:cat:

cnick,

As Jerry implied, two eyes are better than one, not only are using binoculars less fatiguing on the eyes, but using both eyes adds contrast to the view. Even though they are roofs, using two eyes with the 8x20 Ultravid will also add some 3-D effect.

However, 8x20, regardless if mono or stereo, only yields a small 2.5mm exit pupil, which will work fine on a bright sunny day, but is somewhat limiting otherwise. If you've got deep pockets, check out the 8x32 Ultravid. You'll still get a rather compact bin, but more useful in a wider range of lighting conditions, with the same "punch" as your Monovid.

c-span

P.S. Try Advantage for the fleas.

ronh · Aug 2, 2014

"the train of invisible "temperature cells" that happen to be in front of each objective lens at any instant."

Right on target Bill. In fact I try to avoid speaking just before observing, because of the hot air that rises in front of the lenses.

Ron

bh46118 · Aug 2, 2014

Even on some of the best viewing days I see occasional, usually very subtle waves of distortion coming through in the wind that rob an optic of that last degree of resolution. It usually passes fairly quickly, but when comparing optics it can sometimes cause confusion.

ronh said:
"the train of invisible "temperature cells" that happen to be in front of each objective lens at any instant."

Right on target Bill. In fact I try to avoid speaking just before observing, because of the hot air that rises in front of the lenses.

Ron

cnick6 · Aug 2, 2014

NDhunter said:
If you like your Leica monocular, you do need to update to a nice optic you can use with "both eyes". Your monocular is a
8x20, so the Ultravid would be a very nice choice. If you want a
binocular for better all around use, consider 8x32 or 8x42, both
better and easier to use all around than the little fiddly 8x20 size.

A trip to Cabelas seems in order, and have fun, they usually have a
nice selection.

Thanks Jerry. Yeah it's funny you mentioned this because we have Seafair weekend here in Seattle. Earlier today, I was heading outside when a train of helos flew overhead -- AH-1 Cobras, CH-47s -- at probably around ~3,000 FT.

My Leica did a pretty good job in terms of optical quality but as you say, I could feel the strain somewhat using just the one eye. My Nikon 12x42s are always with me in the vehicle, so I switched to them and despite the lesser quality, my eyes were far more relaxed. (The 4x extra power helped quite a bit too!)

I am definitely looking for a nice, high-end pair of binoculars. I really like the Ultravid HD 50s and would have to determine which power is best. 12x is pretty comfortable to me. My Nikons at 20x are nice but can be a tad heavy after a long viewing stint -- especially if i'm looking at a level angle. As the positive declination increases, it becomes less of a problem. The Ultravid 10x42s might be a nice sweet spot. If they had a 12x42 then that would probably be at the top of my list. Perhaps even the 10x32s might suit me well enough.

That being said, if I can find a smaller objective that gets me to a sweet spot of optical quality, light gathering and [enough] power, then I'd be happy.

I definitely will look at Swarovski and perhaps Zeiss.

It's that time of year, so I'm thinking Nikon and others will be updating their binocular line very soon.

B

mayoayo · Aug 2, 2014

I think ronh made a good point.The monocular would be easier to align and perhaps your brain is happy staying in that mode instead of having to deal with collimation issues...plus ergonomically its going to be more forgiving in the way it fits your face(people love to talk about their extravagant noses ,bulging eyebrows and deep set, strangely positioned eyes in this forum,..if this is your case dont be shy about mentioning it)....Maybe one of our eyes is too dominant and you get better vision this way...How do you binocular fare in monocular mode?...do you get better vision using only one barrel than two?.....And then Theres muscle work in the arms and neck ,not to be overlooked, associated with lifting bins(even moderatel sized)that can affect overall comfort , concentration and stabilization .
If you compare a number of binoculars with your Monovid and found that the overall result still not as satisfactory,you shoud also see how your nikons compare with otr binoculars....

WJC · Aug 2, 2014

ronh said:
"the train of invisible "temperature cells" that happen to be in front of each objective lens at any instant."

Right on target Bill. In fact I try to avoid speaking just before observing, because of the hot air that rises in front of the lenses.

Ron

Folks on these bino-oriented forums are always seeking perfection in some INSTRUMENT (which has never existed and never will), but fail to consider that about 95% of the bad ju ju they complain about is WAY below their threshold of recognition. Nor, do they take into consideration imperfections in the weather, lighting, jitters, cornea, retinal wall, and brain . . . brain . . . brain . . . brain . . .

[And, no Brock, I'm not being snotty' just stirring the pot a little. If I lived a little farther south, I would have the opportunity to stir a lot of pot; 'seems there are dispensaries everywhere.]

That's why I just use what I have. When it needs replacing, it gets replaced. Using a Superior E, that's not likely to happen a lot.

Bill

PS speaking of brains, what kind of geeky stuff do you do at Los Alamos? I've forgotten. But that's actually great. Before the stroke, I had to take responsibility for my own stupidity; now I can just write it off as a "stroke thing."

bh46118 · Aug 2, 2014

That's the big one.

WJC said:
Nor, do they take into consideration imperfections in the weather

ronh · Aug 4, 2014

what kind of geeky stuff do you do at Los Alamos?

Eat green chile. Think up reasons not to cut the grass. It's the rainy season, forget stargazing. Birdwatch on weekends and get the shopping done. Went to a flamenco show in Santa Fe last night! During the week, climb my daily hill before work, and settle into the persona of Isotope Feeney.

Ron

WJC · Aug 4, 2014

ronh said:
what kind of geeky stuff do you do at Los Alamos?

Eat green chile. Think up reasons not to cut the grass. It's the rainy season, forget stargazing. Birdwatch on weekends and get the shopping done. Went to a flamenco show in Santa Fe last night! During the week, climb my daily hill before work, and settle into the persona of Isotope Feeney.

Ron

Why didn't you just say you're a glow-in-the-dark astro-orno-thinkologist with flamenco tendencies? That's shows much more succinctificationessousicity. Bill Brohaugh would be proud of you.

I must say, however, I'm a bit concerned with you working around those glow-in-the-dark things. Having to "think up" reasons NOT to cut the grass (When did they get grass at Los Alamos?) is a sign of a dull mind. I thought up 18-20 reasons years ago and just rotate them via a random access generator. Sadly, my wife keeps the override switch with her at all times!

Bill

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