Canon SX60HS in Action (3 Viewers)

Torchepot · Oct 16, 2014

Exif data

Neil said:
As I mentioned earlier the Exif shows distance to subject but it shows a different number when the lens is zoomed. Does anyone know how we are supposed to use this?
Neil.

Hi Neil, had my sx60 for about a week now and am really impressed by video quality. I'm trying to get better photos so it would be good to know what C1, C2 settings you prefer. I noticed you mentioned continuous shooting without AF - is there a reason why continuous AF should be avoided?

I've trawled through lots of Exif data for my shots and subject distance is always blank - any ideas?

Very impressed with your results - gives me something to aim at!

All the best,

Phil

Neil · Oct 16, 2014

crazyfingers said:
I have never used that button. On the SX50 and looking at the manual, it's not clear at all why one would use it if they have IS set for continuous or when focusing. Perhaps if I did a lot of picture taking when walking or did movies it would choose a different IS mode but 100% of the time I'm just standing there trying to hold the camera steady as I can with IS on when focusing. In that case I see no purpose for the frame assist. I just did some impromptu testing on a local tree limb in my yard. I see no difference given that I have IS set to initiate when I press the shutter button half-way.

The Frame Assist button is a mechanical way of activating IS if it is not selected in the menu. You may not have it selected for several reasons , but the main one is if you usually have the camera on a tripod.
I also noticed yesterday that it seemed to acquire focus more reliably if I used it. More testing needed on this one though.
Neil.

Neil · Oct 16, 2014

Torchepot said:
Hi Neil, had my sx60 for about a week now and am really impressed by video quality. I'm trying to get better photos so it would be good to know what C1, C2 settings you prefer. I noticed you mentioned continuous shooting without AF - is there a reason why continuous AF should be avoided?

I've trawled through lots of Exif data for my shots and subject distance is always blank - any ideas?

Very impressed with your results - gives me something to aim at!

All the best,

Phil

Phil,
I have C1 set for fast Continuous Bursts - no Raw and no AF between shots. I have start up zoom position longer too ( about half zoom).
C2 is for Raw with AF.
Neil

mzettie · Oct 17, 2014

crazyfingers said:
I just went out an had an opportunity to try that lower button again. Framing assist - LOCK on the SX50.

There was a rabbit in my yard. Photos are not worth posting but what I observed was interesting. At full optical and the 2x teleconverter, I first did a regular focus which turns on the IS when I press the shutter button half down. Then with it still focused there released the shutter button and pressed the lower button on the side, Framing Assist - Lock. The IS Turned on and seemed no different then the IS when I half-press the shutter. Then I kept the button on the side pressed and half-pressed the shutter. In about 1 out of three attempts, doing both at the same time caused the image to jump all about crazy. And it wasn't my hand. It was if two software commands were in competition and the result was craziness.

This afternoon I experimented with the FA Lock button with IS set to both Continuous and Shoot Only. I couldn't recreate the crazy interactive shake you experienced in Shoot Only, but I do have a question for you about this setting. If I'm understanding correctly, when you press the shutter halfway the IS kicks in, stabilizing the image you see in the viewfinder? This is not the case with my SX50....the image bounces (similar to when IS is off) and keeps moving til I depress the shutter all the way. However, it does stabilize if I depress the FA Lock button.
Wonder whassup with that?

mzettie · Oct 17, 2014

Neil said:
The Frame Assist button is a mechanical way of activating IS if it is not selected in the menu. You may not have it selected for several reasons , but the main one is if you usually have the camera on a tripod.
I also noticed yesterday that it seemed to acquire focus more reliably if I used it. More testing needed on this one though.
Neil.

Neil, when I read this late this afternoon, I ran outside to try the FA Lock with IS off (hand held) and sure enough, it worked. Surprised me cause it was so dark, but also inspired me to grab a few shots using it with Shoot Only IS, and that's when I really got surprised, since it had a huge effect. Not much earlier in the afternoon I'd taken a bunch of shots in Shoot Only, trying to determine if the FA Lock made any difference. I haven't had time to look at them on the computer, but my impression when reviewing on the LCD was that it didn't. Yet in the low light conditions this evening, it very obviously did. Link to the late-day photos; https://www.flickr.com/photos/127980272@N06/sets/72157648392360329/

Neil · Oct 17, 2014

mzettie said:
Neil, when I read this late this afternoon, I ran outside to try the FA Lock with IS off (hand held) and sure enough, it worked. Surprised me cause it was so dark, but also inspired me to grab a few shots using it with Shoot Only IS, and that's when I really got surprised, since it had a huge effect. Not much earlier in the afternoon I'd taken a bunch of shots in Shoot Only, trying to determine if the FA Lock made any difference. I haven't had time to look at them on the computer, but my impression when reviewing on the LCD was that it didn't. Yet in the low light conditions this evening, it very obviously did. Link to the late-day photos; https://www.flickr.com/photos/127980272@N06/sets/72157648392360329/

Nice test. I suspect that people's original issues with the IS when compared to SX50 is that the zoom is longer so therefore harder to stabilise at the long end. 1365 mm is out there.
Nice.

Neil · Oct 17, 2014

Here is some video I shot yesterday. Some with the Digital Zoom switched on ( kingfisher and Kentish plover) showing the zooming and some slow motion. These were shot on a small tabletop tripod not enough to stop some vibration through the wooden floor of the hide at these magnifications.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7892550@N03/15367252847/
I've reduced it from 1080p to 720p for ease of watching over average wifi connections.
Neil.

Neil · Oct 17, 2014

I'm still going through the images from California taken with the sx60hs. Most are from jpegs.
Neil.

Neil · Oct 17, 2014

When we arrived at our hotel in Laguna Niguel,CA we found an international paddle board contest in progress. From the outside bar of the hotel on the cliff we had a sweeping view down to the beach.
I set the SX60 up on my mini Manfrotto tripod
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1024719-REG/manfrotto_mp3_bk_pocket_tripod_black_for.html
and shot some photos and video.

Neil

CalvinFold · Oct 17, 2014

Those closeups of the people look like they are at quite a distance, but the EXIF data says it's only 158.8 m focal length. So this may be a stupid question (I admit I'm not a guru at these things, still learning) but...seems like from the distance you'd have been at the full 1365mm?

Are you using the digital zoom or digital teleconverter? Or is this the "actual/physical focal length" in the EXIF rather than the "35mm equivalence."

What am I missing?

(I'm still trying to get a sense of the quality at the far end of the zoom range where I'm likely to be shooting.)

I will say the far-right (5th image, closeup of people) and the closeup of the surfer looked reasonably nice considering it's a down-res and doesn't look like Unsharpen Mask was applied to compensate. A tad blurry (as pointed out earlier, it's not a DSLR), a little bit of white clipping.

So why does it seem to me Neil is pulling-off, in my eyes, wonderfully acceptable photography, but others have complained about image quality?

Is there any chance this is SX50/SX40 people noting, perhaps rightly, that the SX60's images aren't quite as good, but are still great by any measure? On a scale of 1-100 (100 being best), is this just a complaint over the SX50 being an 80 and the SX60 being being a 75?

(Yes, I kinda want to like the SX60 for the range...so trying to figure out the reality behind the complaints vs. the SX50 which is my fallback choice as of now.)

Confused,

Mister Barmy · Oct 17, 2014

CalvinFold said:
Those closeups of the people look like they are at quite a distance, but the EXIF data says it's only 158.8 m focal length. So this may be a stupid question (I admit I'm not a guru at these things, still learning) but...seems like from the distance you'd have been at the full 1365mm?

EXIF data shows the actual focal length of the lens, which on the SX60 is 247 mm at the long end. With the 5.2x crop factor, 158.8 is equivalent to ~826 mm.

kawwauser · Oct 20, 2014

the weather is still beating us here in east Scotland, we have some sun but have to put up with the tail end of hurricane gonzalo,i only have the one day out so decided to go out anyway, not great pics but if you watch the short wheatear video first you will understand the conditions I was shooting in

https://vimeo.com/109512035

Roy C · Oct 21, 2014

CalvinFold said:
Those closeups of the people look like they are at quite a distance, but the EXIF data says it's only 158.8 m focal length. So this may be a stupid question (I admit I'm not a guru at these things, still learning) but...seems like from the distance you'd have been at the full 1365mm?

The SX60 has a max focal length of 247mm, but because you have a tiny sensor the image gives a field of view = to 1365mm on a full frame Camera (its a 5.52 cropper)
Where it says 158.8 mm that is = to around 876mm full frame equivalence field of view (e.g 158.8 * 5.52)

CalvinFold · Oct 21, 2014

For anyone following the lengthy discussion and looking for reviews on the SX60, apparently Amazon.com (USA) started shipping before October 21 and the SX60 is already in some people's hands (Amazon Prime members I imagine). Track the reviews here.

Personally, unless things look good better for the SX60 by the end of the month, I'll be hoping the SX50 is still available somewhere.

CalvinFold · Oct 21, 2014

Roy C said:
The SX60 has a max focal length of 247mm, but because you have a tiny sensor the image gives a field of view = to 1365mm on a full frame Camera (its a 5.52 cropper)
Where it says 158.8 mm that is = to around 876mm full frame equivalence field of view (e.g 158.8 * 5.52)

Thanks Roy and Mister Barmey, I was suspecting as much.

mzettie · Oct 21, 2014

kawwauser said:
the weather is still beating us here in east Scotland, we have some sun but have to put up with the tail end of hurricane gonzalo,i only have the one day out so decided to go out anyway, not great pics but if you watch the short wheatear video first you will understand the conditions I was shooting in

https://vimeo.com/109512035

Kawwauser, thanks for reporting again. I'm wondering what you think of the SX60's image stabilization and auto-focus performance this time around.
The consensus of many early users is that the IQ is no better than, or slightly inferior to the SX50's. That's something I could live with. Out-of-focus shots due to poor IS or inaccurate focusing at long focal lengths is not though, and that's what I experienced when I had the camera.
What's so perplexing is that some people have found the cameras to be equivalent in these areas, while others report experiences like mine. Can't figure out if it's expectations that differ (due to the types of shots being attempted) or the cameras themselves.
What's even more confusing is that a few people report that initial IS problems seem to dissipate with use, as though the SX60 requires a "breaking in" period. Is this a learning curve thing, or does the camera have software kinks that work themselves out? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm not a software engineer. I will say that on a couple of occasions my SX50's IS has seemed to disengage...turning the camera off, then on again remedied this.
This weekend, while trying to photograph an unusual vireo in a mixed flock of hyperkinetic little birds, I longed for a better viewfinder. Couldn't even get a butt shot and it made me start thinking about trying the SX60 again. Thing is, if I'd been able to locate the bird with the better EVF, but the camera wasn't able to deliver anything but blur, I'd be no better off than I am now. At least I was able to get a diagnostic shot of a CCSP that jumped up briefly (100x, hand held, no PP); https://www.dropbox.com/s/qes2e8t9eqaxht8/IMG_7483.JPG?dl=0
Aaagh.....I want to have my cake and eat it too....

Torchepot · Oct 21, 2014

Hi mzettie,

had my sx60 for ten days or so and starting to feel a little happier with it. My first instincts were to send it back - couldn't seem to get a decent shot out of it. Once I put it on a tripod I realized that it was capable of producing shots that meet my (admittedly fairly low) standards. Then once I started using the image stabilization button I got some halfway decent shots handheld. I've since tried handheld shots at full optical zoom without pressing the IS button and have been unable to hold the camera steady - even braced against a tree I still get lateral movement. After pressing the button it takes the camera a moment or two but it does lock on and produce much better results.
I find it a bit crazy that I MUST press this stupid button (not the easiest thing to do as it's in such an awkward place) to stand any chance of getting a shot. The "intelligent IS" senses different shooting conditions so why couldn't Canon have been intelligent enough to make it turn itself on? Anyway it gets easier with practice and occasionally I've really surprised myself with handheld shots at 2x max and even 4x!! Obviously the IQ is seriously reduced but as a birder this gives me hope that I might be able to at least get the odd shot of really distant stuff.
Kevin mentioned using the camera instead of a scope, which I'd not really considered, but the viewfinder and LCD screen are so good that this may actually be an option. Yesterday I set the camera up next to my Nikon scope both focussed on the same subject my scope has a 38x eyepiece (ED78) and although it out-resolved the camera the difference was much less than I expected. The magnification was much closer than I thought it was going to be too, at 2x max the scope looked a little stronger but at 4x max the camera was clearly more powerful. I don't really understand how to compare magnification between optics and lenses - or even if you can make a meaningful comparison but I was expecting a much bigger difference.
I have a sneaking feeling that I may end up leaving my scope at home a lot more and may end up using the camera on a tripod instead.
It would be interesting to know how many of the posted shots are handheld. I know Neil has taken some great shots with his pocket tripod. I'm off to Spain in a few days where hopefully I'll have better light and plenty of birds too. I'm glad I didn't send the sx60 back - but I think Canon could have made it a lot easier to use.

Phil

crazyfingers · Oct 22, 2014

Torchepot said:
Hi mzettie,

had my sx60 for ten days or so and starting to feel a little happier with it. My first instincts were to send it back - couldn't seem to get a decent shot out of it. Once I put it on a tripod I realized that it was capable of producing shots that meet my (admittedly fairly low) standards. Then once I started using the image stabilization button I got some halfway decent shots handheld. I've since tried handheld shots at full optical zoom without pressing the IS button and have been unable to hold the camera steady - even braced against a tree I still get lateral movement. After pressing the button it takes the camera a moment or two but it does lock on and produce much better results.
I find it a bit crazy that I MUST press this stupid button (not the easiest thing to do as it's in such an awkward place) to stand any chance of getting a shot. The "intelligent IS" senses different shooting conditions so why couldn't Canon have been intelligent enough to make it turn itself on? Anyway it gets easier with practice and occasionally I've really surprised myself with handheld shots at 2x max and even 4x!! Obviously the IQ is seriously reduced but as a birder this gives me hope that I might be able to at least get the odd shot of really distant stuff.
Kevin mentioned using the camera instead of a scope, which I'd not really considered, but the viewfinder and LCD screen are so good that this may actually be an option. Yesterday I set the camera up next to my Nikon scope both focussed on the same subject my scope has a 38x eyepiece (ED78) and although it out-resolved the camera the difference was much less than I expected. The magnification was much closer than I thought it was going to be too, at 2x max the scope looked a little stronger but at 4x max the camera was clearly more powerful. I don't really understand how to compare magnification between optics and lenses - or even if you can make a meaningful comparison but I was expecting a much bigger difference.
I have a sneaking feeling that I may end up leaving my scope at home a lot more and may end up using the camera on a tripod instead.
It would be interesting to know how many of the posted shots are handheld. I know Neil has taken some great shots with his pocket tripod. I'm off to Spain in a few days where hopefully I'll have better light and plenty of birds too. I'm glad I didn't send the sx60 back - but I think Canon could have made it a lot easier to use.

Phil

You should be able to go into the menus and set the IS to be always on (Continuous) or only when shooting (ie shutter button half pressed) and not need to press the outside button. I'd recommend only when shooting as continuous will use up the battery charge faster) There should not be a need to use a tripod at Max optical zoom. The SX50 will do it easily. But there have been reports from some places that IS on the SX60 is not as good as on the SX50. I have the 50 and IS is amazing. I don't have the 60 so I can't compare.

Torchepot · Oct 22, 2014

crazyfingers said:
You should be able to go into the menus and set the IS to be always on (Continuous) or only when shooting (ie shutter button half pressed) and not need to press the outside button. I'd recommend only when shooting as continuous will use up the battery charge faster) There should not be a need to use a tripod at Max optical zoom. The SX50 will do it easily. But there have been reports from some places that IS on the SX60 is not as good as on the SX50. I have the 50 and IS is amazing. I don't have the 60 so I can't compare.

Of course I've tried both IS modes when shooting at max optical - but it doesn't make any difference, the only way for me to get a steady shot is with the button on the lens (or on a tripod). I think you're right the IS on the sx50 is better or at least easier to use. I didn't buy it though because I really didn't get on with the EVF and I wanted the better video performance. I think Canon have
dropped the ball with the IS on the sx60.

mzettie · Oct 22, 2014

Torchepot said:
Of course I've tried both IS modes when shooting at max optical - but it doesn't make any difference, the only way for me to get a steady shot is with the button on the lens (or on a tripod). I think you're right the IS on the sx50 is better or at least easier to use. I didn't buy it though because I really didn't get on with the EVF and I wanted the better video performance. I think Canon have
dropped the ball with the IS on the sx60.

Thanks, Torchepot. Using a tripod or monopod really isn't an option for me, so if the IS is that poor, I'll just stick with the SX50. I do a very limited amount of birding with a scope, but it's an interesting idea to use the camera in lieu of one. I've used the SX50 to id birds that are too far away to see with bins, but don't generally know what I've got til I see the images on a computer screen. It would be nice to actually see the bird well through the viewfinder, but I'd still want to obtain a decent photo.

A while back, someone suggested using the 2x telephoto setting instead of manually accessing the digital zoom, in order to minimize shake. I've been experimenting with this on the SX50 and it does seem to make a slight difference. Is this also something you've tried with the SX60?

Canon SX60HS in Action (3 Viewers)

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