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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

gulls (1 Viewer)

As a break from the LWH gulls what do you make of this chap - is there a hint of Kumlien's in it or not?

Cheers,
Andrew

sorry andy, this really isn't my 'domain'. is it 'just' a dark glaucoides or a kumlieni already? asking myself whether there are clear cut borders, since populations in northeastern canada according to distribution maps are close to each other.

cheers
 
Andrews gull is of course not easy - or is it? From these three images - Iceland or Kumliens. Primary pattern in these images does not suggest kumlieni and tail band such as shown in this bird I have seen in glaucoides.

JanJ
 
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2076631119&context=photostream&size=o

gbbg?

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=120744&d=1199798126

this is mihai's bucharest gbbg which is still there (yesterday at least). could it be that its outer 2 primaries grow only now, which i think is rather late, because it just recently lost its leg? moult requires (growth-) energy but the wound also takes it and since there were very cold days this could be a reason for delayed/late moult. just a speculation.
plus: isn't it strange for a 4th winter to show such a little mirror on p9?
 
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some additional pics from mid-january of that one-legged 4th winter GBBG in bucharest:

1-3 by cristian mihai at 15.01. showing a gap in secondaries - is that due to moult???
4-5 by florin chirila at 13.01. with a nice 3cy caspian and 2 YLG in pic5

again: do you know of marinus moulting outer primaries that late?
and p9 should show a larger mirror!
 

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Hello LOu.

I don´t think the gap in the secondaries is due to moult, instead it looks like a damage of some sort.
Some GBBG are late - finishes p10 in January, give and take, begining, middle or end of the month. It might also be due to physical condition of the gull -with one leg missing and all.
In the two last GBBG´s at the end here by Pim:

http://www.gull-research.org/gbbg/gbbg3cy/gbbg3cye703.htm

p8 is fylly grown end Nov. With two more to go, although we don´t see how advanced p9 & 10 are, one can wonder when these have fully grown primaries.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=14127

Nr 2:

http://cyberbirding.uib.no/gull/gbbg/ad_01.php

However I can´t explain the seemingly missing mirrors!

JanJ
 
Some GBBG are late - finishes p10 in January, give and take, begining, middle or end of the month. It might also be due to physical condition of the gull -with one leg missing and all.
In the two last GBBG´s at the end here by Pim:

http://www.gull-research.org/gbbg/gbbg3cy/gbbg3cye703.htm

p8 is fylly grown end Nov. With two more to go, although we don´t see how advanced p9 & 10 are, one can wonder when these have fully grown primaries.

JanJ

and as you all assumed, timing is related to age. Here is a pic of the same GBBG now withouth it's red E703 ring. Almost finished primary moult in mid november 2007, the red arrow on the inset points to the tip of p10.

cheers, pim
 

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Another one - to ID

Two from yesterday - the second for comaparison is Lesser Black-backed
 

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hi,

this definitely is nominate (western) heuglini.
an individual with strong streaking. i always find that most heuglini have a very cryptic look due to a middle "peppered" iris and often some darker feathering in immediate proximity of the eye.
are those 2 baltic gulls (nominate fuscus)?? i guess, they're taken down in bahrain too? they could go as intermedius too...(sure some are not separable)
 
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Howard.

With the usual caution of judging gulls from one image - but idf I saw this gul in Wsetrn Europe I would call ita LBBG. If I on the other hand saw it in your spot I would call it 4th cy type Heuglin´s Gull, with well spotted head and neck.

JanJ
 
hi,

are those 2 baltic gulls (nominate fuscus)?? i guess, they're taken down in bahrain too? they could go as intermedius too...(sure some are not separable)

Morning Lou and JANJ

As far as I know only nominate Fuscus occur here however no serious Gull studies have ever been done. Fuscus are the least common of the larger gulls wintering here but stand out really well due to their smaller size and very dark colouration. The Heuglini was an easy one to identify, however here we are still recording it seperate to LBBG. When seen together it is really hard to conclude they are one and the same.
 
Hello Howard.

Short thick blunt-tipped bill - black band - dark looking eye - dark looking upperparts and jizz suggest Armenian Gull for the adult . The younger ones more difficult but I could make a suggestion on the rightmost one - Armenian.

JanJ
 
well, shape looks like armenian but isn't armenian very scarce if not even a rarity in the gulf region? and you suggest even for a 2nd in that pic armenicus... what if they're barabensis, although stance is usually more upright and legs yellower.

howard, just a clarification on recent use of gull names, since you used some on your website:

larus fuscus generally is called lesser-black-backed gull but as a distinction from western races graellsii and intermedius, the nominate race fuscus (which winters at your place) often is called baltic gull. so the ones you see (small, black mantled and very long winged) are "baltic gulls".

larus (fuscus) heuglini usually is called siberian gull (or heuglin's gull)
larus (cachinnans/heuglini) barabensis = steppe gull
larus cachinnans = caspian gull (since yellow-legged gull is used only for larus michahellis.


i love your recent underwing flight shots - quite of a hell to separate siberian, steppe and eastern caspian just from underwing...though i'd like to have a discussion about those birds. some i think are id-able with some probability.
 
Andrews gull is of course not easy - or is it? From these three images - Iceland or Kumliens. Primary pattern in these images does not suggest kumlieni and tail band such as shown in this bird I have seen in glaucoides.

JanJ

Hi Jan,

My thinking is that it's only glaucoides too - the outer primaries are actually paler than the inners. Structurally it was very similar to an accompanying typical glaucoides, lacking the slightly heavier squarer headed appearance of many Kumlien's, also the bill is quite small compared to Kumlien's (maybe an optical illusion of them normally having wholly or near wholly dark bills rather than real difference). Colour-wise it is also a bit too extensively pink based - usually a darker purply pink on Kumlien's and much less obvious at this time of year.


cheers,
Andrew

keep up the LWH gulls all very educational, and the latest ones Howard posted do look like Armenian to me but it's about 10 years since I saw them in Israel.
 
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