Which mini travel scope? (1 Viewer)

With the chance of a good seawatch when on holiday in Spain compromised by the collapse of the base plate on my old 'spare' 'scope and the realisation that a monopod just isn't up to the job, I'm now in the market for an ultra lightweight set-up to supplement my bins. (I already have a good scope & tripod, but both are far too heavy for the sort of walking holidays my wife and I enjoy).

An extra lightweight tripod was also tempting since I discovered that it'd have been very useful accessory for my digital camera. (And, no, I can't afford one of those fancy carbon fibre models). On my return home I purchased the new Velbon Ultra Max IF tripod; this amazingly compact (14") tripod extends to 60", weighs a shade over 2 lbs and has a load capacity of 5 lbs. For such a small tripod it's surprisingly sturdy and should be excellent for macro photography as the legs splay out. OK, the pan-and-tilt head is pretty basic and in no way is it a 'first choice' tripod, but it's a lot better than nothing on a hike.

My next choice is proving more problematic - which ultra-light scope should I get?
Viking do a 25x50, but the Kowa 20x50 was brighter. The Opticron MM2 Travelscope has the right name, but does that extending barrel design suck in muck and moisture? Would the Opticron IS 50 be better? I recall seeing an advert for a new Bushnell 50m 'scope too. Then again is a 50mm OG 'scope too much of a compromise and is there a compact 60mm scope that fits the bill? The other problem is to whether I should break the habits of a lifetime and opt for a zoom (i.e. x15-45) rather than a fixed lens. The lower power would allow use with a shoulder pod whilst having the option of higher power when mounted on a tripod.

John

Kowa have a 50mm 15-30 ED zoom out in Japan (it's called the Kowa 504) and Vixen (Opticrons are rebadged Vixens) have a 50mm ED too (ie this is the MM2 under a different name). Dunno if either is available in the UK/US though.

I have the older(non ED) Vixen 50mm as a second scope. It's ok and I haven't had any dust/grit problems.. I have the grippa case which helps a bit I guess. I wouldn't bother with the dedicated zoom eyepiece on this scope (though I would be interested in the Kowa mentioned above).

Thanks for your comments. The Kowa sounds good (although I'd prefer an angled scope) and I have since found that an earlier posting mentions this little scope. I've always rather looked down on 50mm 'scopes, but, on reflection, wonder if a x15-45x50 instrument would be that much different optically from a x20-60x60 one. Pundits keep telling us that, except at dawn/dusk, there's little to distinguish a 60/65mm scope from a 80/85mm so why should the same apply to a 50mm one? John

Hi John,
have you had a look at the Opticron website?
http://www.opticron.co.uk/
If you go to the MM2 page there is a link to a couple of magazine reviews of the scope. Unfortunately no mention of whether there are any ingress problems with the draw tube or not.
I will probably end up with one of these myself as I already have an Opticron scope. The ability to interchange lenses will make this the cheapest way for me to get a travel scope.

Des.

John Cantelo said:

. Pundits keep telling us that, except at dawn/dusk, there's little to distinguish a 60/65mm scope from a 80/85mm so why should the same apply to a 50mm one? John

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John, by that philosophy you might as well ask whether a 5 mm lens would not do the trick as well. Well, seriously, I have both 8x20 and 8x32 Leica binoculars, and even under good light conditions I far prefer the larger glass. But the small one is always along whereas the larger one is not, due to its weight and size. Thus, you ought to decide first what you are willing to lug along.
I have been quite happy with my Nikon 60mm FieldscopeIIIED on a recent trip. It weighs 1.3 kilograms including the 20-60x eyepiece. The whole set-up with carbon tripod and Novoflex DinO head comes to 3.3 kilograms, including the OpTech strap that I fixed to the scope. In this way the closed set-up can be comfortably carried slung over the shoulder.
Robert

Des
I probably might buy the MM2 also. I already have the ES80 GA ED and was very impressed with the very compact MM2 (and the price) at the recent birdfair, especially as I was looking through them in the Friday thunderstorm. This was a much better test than the usual bright sunny day. Even in the dull rainy light the MM2 stood up well and that was with the "cheap" eyepiece.

Kowa 613/614 are very light John and optically great

my mate has used the kowa 50 mm abroad and liked it

when i'm travelling though a scope and pod is just too cumbersome and i only ever take bins - not much use if you're going seawatching though!

John Cantelo said:

Pundits keep telling us that, except at dawn/dusk, there's little to distinguish a 60/65mm scope from a 80/85mm so why should the same apply to a 50mm one? John

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Or even a 40, 30, 20...
There must be a limit, I suspect, but you make a good point. I must have a look through one of the 50mm scopes as they do have real advantages in some situations, you're right and Kowa are a super company. I wonder if the fov becomes very restricted, though?

It was a Kowa 612 whose base plate collapsed and kicked off this thread! A quick trip out to Grove today decided the issue as In Focus were there so I returned with a Opticron MM2 and HR x20 eyepiece. Given it was dull and overcast, the little Opticron stood up pretty well against my new Leica 32x62. The whole mini-tripod & MM2 set up feels like it weighs rather less than the Leica 'scope alone. The 50mm 'scope certainly seems an awful lot better than those Nickel Supras that were all the rage back in the 60s!

John

Hi John

I'd be interested in some more feedback on this in a few weeks. Let us know how you're getting on with it if you remember.

John Cantelo said:

It was a Kowa 612 whose base plate collapsed and kicked off this thread! A quick trip out to Grove today decided the issue as In Focus were there so I returned with a Opticron MM2 and HR x20 eyepiece. Given it was dull and overcast, the little Opticron stood up pretty well against my new Leica 32x62. The whole mini-tripod & MM2 set up feels like it weighs rather less than the Leica 'scope alone. The 50mm 'scope certainly seems an awful lot better than those Nickel Supras that were all the rage back in the 60s!

John

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You might have started something here, John. I'd be keen, like Tim, to know how it works out over the next few weeks. Thanks for this.

As I originally intended it for holidays abroad when birding is only one component of the package (my non-birding spouse being the other!) you might have to wait a while for an extensive test. However, since I rarely lug my 'scope around when indulging in a bit of autumnal 'bush bashing' I may give it a try then (esp. as Mrs C. came in today with a small rucksack - ideal for the job - which WH Smith are flogging off at £1.99 if you make any purchase in their emporium), John

John Cantelo said:

As I originally intended it for holidays abroad when birding is only one component of the package (my non-birding spouse being the other!) you might have to wait a while for an extensive test. John

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I finally checked out the Opticron website. Amazing thing, that MM2. Obviously a bit lighter than my Nikon 60mmFS. Judging from my experiences with an extendable telephoto zoom lens, I'd assume that you need to be careful under rainy or very humid (tropical or seaspray) conditions. That's when your scope might fog up inside. But, again judging from my telephoto lens, you ought to be able to get rid of that by removing the eyepiece and allowing it to dry up. The main problem with that is the time it takes, and to make sure there is no dirt or dust getting inside. I'm looking forward to read about your experiences with this neat mini-scope.

Robert

I popped out to Grove yesterday to test out the Opticron MM2 and lightweight Velbon tripod. My preliminary assessment was as follows:-

1- The tripod. The first surprise was that, despite a brisk breeze, the tripod was very stable even when extended to its full height (i.e. over 5'). When I was sitting with the legs splayed (the tripod's not mine!) the combination felt even more steady. The one-hand pan-and-tilt control also did the job adequately with the light weight MM2. However, when I mounted my heavy-ish 60mm scope on the tripod, I found it much more difficult to control since the scope tended to tip backwards and thus panning wasn't easy. With the central spindle fully raised the head couldn't be locked completely since the removable lower part of the spindle unscrewed as you turned in the same direction as the thread. Fortunately with an angled scope the tripod could still be locked securely at an acceptable height. Each leg being locked by a single control, the tripod was quick to extend to full length, but it was fiddle to set each leg at different heights as the tightening/untightening knob doubles as the leg's foot. ('In Focus', I belatedly discovered, do a similarly sized tripod with more conventional tightening arrangement which may be better). I also found that, in its fully collapsed state, it worked quite well as a chest/shoulder pod. The 'quick release' plate actually fitted more snugly than on my Manfrotto tripod (which wobbles a little), but the locking mechanism did feel a bit flimsy. OK the tripod didn't feel terribly robust, but it did provide an acceptably stable platform that would probably 'do the business' in all except in a strong wind (assuming you're using an angled 'scope and are not much over 5' 8"!). I wouldn't want to mount relatively heavy (i.e. 1000+ gm) scope on it or at least not regularly, but even so the greater portability of this tripod would make it a tempting option with a lighter 60mm scope. With the 50mm MM2 mounted on it, it made a very easy to use lightweight combination. I suspect that used heavily (esp with a larger instrument) it would last as long most 'cheaper' tripods (i.e. about a year in my experience), but used on high days and holidays it should be OK.

2 - The MM2 50mm scope. I was using a x20 eyepiece. I was tempted by the zoom, but the loss of optical quality was too big a compromise for me. Had the dealer had one, I would have been interested in trying a x25 lens. (Looking at a Viking 25x50 last week I felt that the image a little dull and the FOV a little narrow, but the MM2 might have been better in this respect. I'm not sure, though, that I'd like to hand-hold a x25 scope). Given that we're not talking a high-end APO/ED instrument here, I thought the image was pretty good. Quality fell off towards the outer edge (as one would expect), but in the centre it was acceptably bright and sharp. Performance did fall off a bit when it clouded over, but not as much as I'd expected given the smaller OG. I agree that I'd not like to use the MM2 in the rain or where it's humid - had this been a consideration I'd have gone for the Kowa 50mm scope. However, I quite like the idea of slipping this scope (sans tripod) into my pocket as a hand held back-up to my 8x32s and the Kowa was simply too long for most of my pockets! I also found it a more comfortable little instrument to hand-hold than the Kowa. When braced against something solid (e.g. a hide) I was able to get a fairly steady image. Compared to a top end scope it was clearly less sharp and less bright (even in fairly good conditions), but the difference wasn't so great as you might think.

3 - The combination. Being used to carrying round moderately heavy 'scope and tripod combo this was a real feather-light set-up (my bathroom scales suggest a combined weight of c2 Kg rather than c5kg). On a short walk I barely noticed it and on longish treks it could be carried without discomfort. It's ideal in situations where you don't anticipate using a scope, but every once in a while you wish you'd lugged one round.

All-in-all a neat little arrangement although not a "first choice" scope/tripod set-up. I did feel that I wanted a little sticker with the legend "My other scope is a Leica" since this is so obviously not what a 'serious' birder ought to be carrying round! I gather that Kowa have an ED 50mm scope (straight only?) which is only available in Japan. With a good x20/x22/x25 eyepiece (or x15-45 zoom?), this ought to closely match the performance of favoured 60mm scopes paired with a x25/x30 (or a x20-60 zoom) eyepiece. With a somewhat more robust tripod of similar dimensions and weight (carbon fibre?) such an arrangement might just be good enough to be a bit more than a spare travel scope,

John

Hi John

don't know how I missed this one. As a travel scope the midget is remarkably good value. It slips nicely into jacket pockets and can be used easily with a shoulder pod doubling as a desk pod.

Optically it has its limitations, the image can be a bit dull and the colours don't exactly spring to life but for the price its more than acceptable. Very handy for those family holidays where you are not sure if you will need a scope or for the birder on a budget.

What lens are using John? I know Opticron do a 25x and 15-40 zoom are using an HR lens?

pduxon said:

What lens are using John? I know Opticron do a 25x and 15-40 zoom are using an HR lens?

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Yes, I wondered about that, too. I noticed there are three lines of eyepieces.

Another point, I too find that slight wobbling of the Manfrotto quick-release plate annoying.

Robert

Swissboy said:

Yes, I wondered about that, too. I noticed there are three lines of eyepiece Robert

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I have the MM2 with the 15-40x zoom that I use for travel/holidays. Do not underrate the zoom, I have compared it to the Nikon 15-45x spotting scope eyepiece in an astro scope and found the Opticron to be markedly superior. Used in my astro scope it gave a maximum magnification of 170x, while the image was breaking down in the Nikon at 150x. This is a bargain Vixen made eyepiece.

Combined with a shoulder pod this makes a very useful and lightweight bit of kit.

pduxon said:

What lens are using John? I know Opticron do a 25x and 15-40 zoom are using an HR lens?

Click to expand...

Swissboy said:

Yes, I wondered about that, too. I noticed there are three lines of eyepieces.
Robert

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Answer from post #14 :-

John Cantelo said:

I was using a x20 eyepiece. I was tempted by the zoom, but the loss of optical quality was too big a compromise for me. Had the dealer had one, I would have been interested in trying a x25 lens.
John

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(But I have lots of time to peruse these threads!)

Seriously, though, all in all this sounds a useful bit of kit at a reasonable price.

Roger

I'm interested that 'CJ' finds the zoom useful. I was tempted, but thought I actually didn't see a lot more at a slightly compromised x30+ with the zoom than I did at x20 with the fixed eyepiece. Perhaps I might revisit this decision after I've had more experience with the instrument. One point though, I couldn't help feeling that the case that came with the little tiddler of a 'scope had actually been designed for a different instrument! A pity that it doesn't come with as 'stay-on' case,
John

My wife uses the MM2 with the zoom and has been very pleased with it - I have used it a bit and am very impressed with the image quality - in good light it's very useable even to the top end of the zoom. She uses it a lot and has had no problem with grit/moisture, all round she's very please with it.
I have a kowa travel scope (501 I think) with 20x on it, which is very handy. If I go away and don't take the main scope I use the kowa with a shoulder pod - weighs very little and give a decent enough image.