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Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 14:33   #101
Ravis
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Thanks very much for all that important and helpful info David. I have a pair of Opticron Discovery 8x32 and they are very good for their size, weight and price. The focus wheel is ok, but not as easy and smooth as some. The field around the centre starts to get a little blurred too. But they are not ED in any case.
I could end up getting the very bright wide angle Hawke Sapphire 8x43 and the Vanguard ED IV 10x42, both of which are good in their own way. I heard that the Vanguards have a sharp field of view at the expense of width and they are probably not as bright as the Hawke ... ?
I've sort of ruled out the Monarch 7 now and narrowed it down to the two mentioned here. I was considering leaving the ED IV just in case they come out with an ED V with dielectric coatings next year ... ?
The other bins, such as top ones like EDG, SV EL, Victory are too expensive. The SV EL 8.5x42 is about £1800. If it was £800 like the older used basic EL then i'd get it. I am willing to pay £400 for a good Chinese one though. I think Vanguard could be a Chinese company and Hawke is just based in China, but is English design and engineering?
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Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 16:54   #102
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I saw on another thread, where you yourself commented David, descriptions of the Hawke Sapphire ED 8x25 and was concerned about the focuser which can be problematic. I also wonder how the hinge holds up over time too. The alternative to these £180 bins is the £500 Swarovski CL 8X25. I can't be spending too much because of my interest in other bins.
That page actually mentioned that the Sapphires resemble the Swarovskis and I think the whole line does. Copying Western design is a big thing, but Hawke is a British company. Although it happens in Europe too I guess.
For anyone with enough money, the Swarovskis are the better option.

Last edited by Ravis : Saturday 23rd September 2017 at 17:00. Reason: Additional info.
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Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 19:00   #103
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It seems some compact are particularly prone to the hinges working loose. When the Swarovski CL pocket was launched in the UK, by mid morning the hinge on every single one had worked so loose they couldn't hold collimation. The Zeiss Terra fared a bit better as I recall, with only two out of the four on the stand reaching the floppy stage. Yes there have been reports of the hinge on the Sapphire ED working loose as well. I remember a forum member explaining it was a simple procedure to tighten them up yourself, but I'm afraid I've forgotten again who it was.

I don't recall the focus problem, other than my fat fingers finding it a bit fiddly and the dioptre adjustment even worse. I thought the view was very good for the price. You should post a question in the Hawke section to find out more from those that own them.

David
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Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 20:03   #104
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Wow, a problem like that with Swarovski! I wonder how it happened, vibration through transit?
Glad you never had any real problems with the focus wheel. The hinge thing doesn't seem like much of a problem anyway because it's fixable.
I wanted to keep my relatively compact Opticron Discovery WP 8x32 with 1.2m close focus, but deciding to send it back to Amazon due to poor performance in the one i got. Amazon may be dodgy in this way, but at least they accept returns easily. It has an excellent review with BBR. It was that and Ray Mear's advice that made me get them. They are also one of, if not, the most smallest 8x32 out there. They're supposed to be very good quality too. But the focus wheel is a bit sticky, one side of the field is fuzzy, and it's barely binocular vision within the 4m range and gets worse the closer you focus. You can still see your own feet but it's almost like you're using one eye. Pity because I prefer this type over true compacts with less fov. The Sapphires still seem good anyway and i'll try Tesco direct this time. We can get a 10% discount with them. They are going all over the place for 179.
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Old Saturday 23rd September 2017, 20:03   #105
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Thanks for the advice David.
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Old Tuesday 26th September 2017, 12:55   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WriterCJ View Post
Definitely faulty Daniel, I get no such "softness" and "stiffening" with the focus wheel on the 10x42 EDIV. The focus is firm, smooth and accurate throughout its range. I'd send them back and insist on a replacement if I were you.
I just received an email from Vanguard. They tell Me verbatim:

-Good morning,

We've checked the binoculars.
We've readjusted the central wheel. The hardness is normal, when the rotation in the clockwise direction you will notice that it increases the hardness, but it happens in all the units of that reference.
On the sound, it comes from the central focusing wheel and it is also usual, we checked the eyepieces and they are perfectly. One of the front covers was very loose and we replaced it.
As for diopter adjustment we have not seen it fail. It is usually extracted when you strip the lightly and once in that position it rotates smoothly and remains fixed in the selected position when lightly pressed.

We proceed to send to the same collection address.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I say, I feel a kind of "rubbing" of the focus wheel while you spin it. Is that normal? And the clicks when you rotate quickly to find the focus point, is it normal? I think I'm being teased by Vanguard lords. The Vanguard Ed 1 I have are like silk. Smooth the focus wheel, no noise or rubbing. Besides, it's not going to harden as it turns, it's uniform!
I think I'm going to have to stick with a half-product. I'm not happy with the purchase in that regard. As far as manufacturing leaves you wanting, and the customer service didn't expect you would behave like that. I consider it to be a factory defect, clearly, but these gentlemen have not coroofed it like this. Applause for Vanguard!
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Old Thursday 5th October 2017, 10:03   #107
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Sorry to hear about your problems wirh the ED IV. There might be a bit of hope though... I recently had a similar rubbing, kind of clicking feeling when turning the focus wheel on a binocular. Turned ouot that the rubber armouring loosened a bit and touched the plastic/ rubbery ridges of the focuswheel, causing a similar experience to what you describe.
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Old Sunday 8th October 2017, 19:17   #108
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Sorry to hear about your problems wirh the ED IV. There might be a bit of hope though... I recently had a similar rubbing, kind of clicking feeling when turning the focus wheel on a binocular. Turned ouot that the rubber armouring loosened a bit and touched the plastic/ rubbery ridges of the focuswheel, causing a similar experience to what you describe.
Days after Vanguard returned them to me, I cleaned the front lenses and one of them was tarnished, dirty. I was very surprised and was already alert, but it seems that the problem is outside, was fat and removed.
Once I pass this scare I decided to forget the problems and enjoy them. It's costing Me to find the perfect diopter fit, but apart from this, they are wonderful. The shine they have is outstanding, said by someone who uses Swa and was impressed. I love the contrast they have when you do sweeps to find birds, it is very easy to perceive any movement.
When you find the perfect focus point, it's a wonder how sharp you are (although you're getting used to me). Sometimes you think you have the object in focus, but you look again subtly with the focus wheel, and you get to tune.
The weight and the ergonomics are very good.
I could taste them watching seabirds, also in a coastal area and with dunes, and also in a forest. In the latter it is incredible the sensation that it gives when looking for a bird through the branches and the foliage of a tree.
On the other hand, observing at sea, I was able to match them with some Nikon Monarch 7 8x42. I have to say in favor of these that represents the colors to perfection. Perhaps with a slightly bluish hue. In mine can be seen with some ease the green hue, especially when looking for a bird with the sky in the background.
The Nikon's were also very bright, but they don't have as much sparkle as the Vanguard. Perhaps the vision was more relaxed and not so "aggressive," but this would have to be seen using them longer. On the other hand, as soon as I put them in front of my eyes, I noticed that they do not have the same degree of clarity as the Vanguard. It is true that the contrast was also very good, but I saw them lacking that extreme point of sharpness, as if the lenses were somewhat dirty, somewhat blurry.
The fact is that they are on par, and the choice of one or the other would be a matter of taste. I liked them a lot, of course, but I'm really happy with mine. By the way, the Vanguard seems not to affect the bad conditions. Seeing through clouds, excess light, marine horizon with poor visibility, etc. I want to keep going to the field and try them the better!

Daniel.
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Old Sunday 26th November 2017, 14:04   #109
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Vanguard Endeavor 10X42 ED II vs ED IV

Thanks Typo! Not sure if I replied to this very helpful comment back in September. Do you know if Vanguard fixed any problems since then.
The comments regarding the 8x42s were interesting, but I needed more info on the 10x42s. Regards.

Last edited by Ravis : Sunday 26th November 2017 at 14:26. Reason: Error
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Old Sunday 26th November 2017, 14:26   #110
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Sorry, I can see all the previous comments now. I still didn't get much info on the 10x ones, but the 8x info is a reasonable indication. I have been using Zeiss Conquest 8x32s, so i've not been suffering so much :)
Ray Mear actually recommends the Zeiss Victory's for the 8x32s for those that can afford them. They are reasonably compact.
I am yet to find a place that will demo the ED IV, ED Pro and Sapphire for both the 8x and 10x. I will need to do that now. The RSPB don't do Hawke etc. Their demo range is good tho. I will need a 10x soon tho, currently using mediocre porros. 8x42s are supposed to be brighter than 8x32s, but wondering if Hawke's 8x43 Sapphires will be worth getting if I have the 8x32 Conquests?
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Old Sunday 26th November 2017, 14:35   #111
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PS- using Bresser 10x50s with good collimation, even tho bought at Lidl 10 years ago for £20. They are good.
I got the very good pair of Conquests from Cash Converters in Greater Manchester for £360. Zeiss transfered the remaining 9 years of warranty over to me easily with just the serial number. I explained to the man in the shop that they sometimes need the paper work with a specific product number to do the transfer, so he took off £40 because there was no box or paperwork. Original accessories were all there tho. Plus, they only accept products when the seller (the person pawing in this case) has ID.
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Old Monday 27th November 2017, 16:49   #112
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BTW - i use 10x bins for wading birds etc on coastal areas.

Just spoke to Vanguard UK and they said that they are releasing a tweaked version of the Endeavor ED IV next Spring, maybe late March. I will go to Infocus or Fotosense to try them out next year. He said that both the II and IV are good, but he slightly prefers the IV, which he said has good edge to edge clearness and brightness. I thought that the II had better field focus, but not according to him. Both are around £350 now.
I would like to compare them to the Eagle ED Ranger and Viking ED Pro, but these are not easily available and perhaps not any better. How would a Hawke Sapphire 8x43 compare to a Vanguard Endeavor IV 8x42? The tech man at Vanguard said that they hold up good against them, but then i said that the Sapphires are bright and have a wider field of view.
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