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Old Sunday 27th March 2016, 18:10   #1
Sam_Jays
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Vanguard Endeavour ED IV?

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster here! Firstly, I just wanted to say what a great site this is, and what an incredibly useful resource it is to novice wildlife enthusiasts like myself. Thanks to all who contribute!

Secondly, my partner and I are both in the market for new bins. She uses the Opticron Trailfinder III 8x25 and I the Hawke Endurance CF 8x32. If I'm honest her need is more pressing than mine as the Hawkes are reasonable, but I do suffer with optical G.A.S (being interested in photography and astronomy too). Anyway, we were pretty much settled on the Vanguard ED II in 8x32 (or maybe 8x42 for me) after testing them at a local retailer (loved the flat field and the impressive abberation/distortion control). However, the sales guy mentioned that their Vanguard rep had informed them of an impending ED IV. He didn't know details so I was curious if anyone has heard or knows anything about these? I couldn't find anything on Vanguard's website, but Eagle Optics seem to have a placeholder:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...8x42-binocular

Like I say, there's no huge rush for us to upgrade so, if these are within striking distance of the EDII price range and somehow offer even better performance, it might be worth us holding out until they appear...

Thanks
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Old Sunday 27th March 2016, 19:05   #2
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Welcome to the forum Sam.

I spoke to the Vanguard team back in the summer and I know they had a higher transmission model in the pipeline, but in my opinion, the prototype I saw needed a lot more work. I emailed someone at Vanguard about a month ago asking for an update but have had no reply and tried emailing a second person at the start of the weekend.

My guess is that the SK15 glass might be a high transmission glass. For me, upgrading the prism mirror coating to dielectric would be higher priority. No mention of that in the blurb.

I'll report back if I hear anything.

David
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Old Sunday 27th March 2016, 19:34   #3
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Welcome to the forum Sam.

I spoke to the Vanguard team back in the summer and I know they had a higher transmission model in the pipeline, but in my opinion, the prototype I saw needed a lot more work. I emailed someone at Vanguard about a month ago asking for an update but have had no reply and tried emailing a second person at the start of the weekend.

My guess is that the SK15 glass might be a high transmission glass. For me, upgrading the prism mirror coating to dielectric would be higher priority. No mention of that in the blurb.

I'll report back if I hear anything.

David
Thanks David. Thank you also for your review of the EDIIs, it was this that led me to check them out.

I was wondering about the SK15 prisms as I don't think I've read of these before. I'd always welcome improved low light performance, so if they do improve transmission that would be of interest. I'd hope a dielectric coating would be used this time too, they seem increasingly standard on even moderately priced astro scope diagonals so hopefully they can be included without it effecting the pricing too much!
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Old Tuesday 29th March 2016, 10:13   #4
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Interesting -
The EO specs list show an EDIV is slightly shorter, very slightly lighter, half a foot better on close focus, same FOV, about the same ER. So, there must be something about it not apparent yet that was worth the development investment.
And what happened to EDIII? Did they lose count?
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Old Tuesday 29th March 2016, 10:15   #5
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Forgot to mention: slightly shorter, but slightly heavier. Another lens perhaps? Might indicate something on the transmission front.
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Old Wednesday 30th March 2016, 08:05   #6
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SK15 prisms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy7 View Post
Forgot to mention: slightly shorter, but slightly heavier. Another lens perhaps? Might indicate something on the transmission front.
I wonder if the shorter length is due to the use of SK15 rather than BaK-4. From what I've read SK15 has the higher refractive index, yet lower dispersion (higher Abbe number) apparently. Could it be that these would have even better CA control than the EDII?!! In my brief testing of them, I couldn't detect any CA of note on the EDII - perhaps a very faint and narrow fringe around an overhead cable against a bright, overcast sky.

I too wonder what happened to the EDIII. I note that B&H also returns a hit when searching for the EDIV, but the page doesn't load unfortunately...
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Old Wednesday 30th March 2016, 08:37   #7
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Sam,

I got an answer back from Vanguard saying they haven't started full production yet, so arrival in stores isn't imminent. No date given. No info on the technical side as yet either, but I've asked some further questions and will let you know if I hear anything.

Before we get carried away with the morsels of information we think we have, the sample I saw in the summer seemed optically distinct from both the ED and EDII and anything could have changed since then. I don't know what to expect.

David
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Old Wednesday 30th March 2016, 09:13   #8
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Possibly they're bypassing EDIII as an over-used descriptor and to avoid confusion with other makes.... can't say i've seen anything called EDIV elsewhere..
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Old Thursday 31st March 2016, 09:35   #9
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Hi David,

Thanks for the update. It is useful to know that the new model won't be hitting the stores imminently - certainly a consideration when making our decision. Most likely we'll grab a pair of the 8x32 EDIIs, but hold off a while longer before acquiring any 8x42s. Regardless, I look forward to hearing any other details or information you may glean!

Regards,

Sam
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Old Friday 1st April 2016, 17:42   #10
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Not a lot to report at present I'm afraid. I did hear the EDIV does not have dielectric prism coatings, but that in itself leads to more questions. They have been passed on to the technical guys, but no response so far.

David
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Old Wednesday 29th June 2016, 19:26   #11
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I gave a call to Vanguard USA to get a general idea of the differences between the current ED II and the upcoming ED IV.

- It will have improved prism glass (as mentioned above).
- Styling changes (as seen in the Eagle Optics listing).
- Diopter adjustment incorporated in the focus knob (similar to Swaro and Nikon EDG).
- Improved light transmission and CA control.

He said they currently expect them to be available here in the US around late fall. The current Endeavor ED and ED II models will continue in the lineup but at lower price points than the ED IV.
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 00:14   #12
typo
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Thanks for the update. It's a couple of months since I spoke to the UK guys and they had no idea when it might be ready. I thought the UK BirdFair in August might be a target date, but perhaps that will be missed. I'll se if I can find out.

David
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 02:51   #13
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David ... BirdFair may be a valid date. In the back of my mind, I am thinking some of the ED II models were available in Europe before showing up state side. Hopefully you have a better memory on that than I do. Sounds like a good idea to check with your Vanguard contact.
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 12:34   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceH View Post
David ... BirdFair may be a valid date. In the back of my mind, I am thinking some of the ED II models were available in Europe before showing up state side. Hopefully you have a better memory on that than I do. Sounds like a good idea to check with your Vanguard contact.
It will be launched at the Photokina Germany in September.
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 12:55   #15
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Thumbs up

Should be enough time to whack on some dielectric coatings on the new prisms!


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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 13:58   #16
jan van daalen
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Should be enough time to whack on some dielectric coatings on the new prisms!


Chosun
No whacking
Price increase round 300,00 euro and diŽlectric coatings.
It will be the upper level and not a replacement for the II series.
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 14:08   #17
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
No whacking
Price increase round 300,00 euro and diŽlectric coatings.
It will be the upper level and not a replacement for the II series.
Price INCREASE of 300 Euro!

I think we all just got whacked mightily!!


Chosun

Last edited by Chosun Juan : Thursday 30th June 2016 at 14:24. Reason: Mob hit !
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 15:22   #18
jan van daalen
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Price INCREASE of 300 Euro!

I think we all just got whacked mightily!!


Chosun
Better whacked then sacked
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 16:02   #19
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In the U.K. add 20% extra increase courtesy Brexit.

What do we cut out? Wine, women or song?

Surely not all three.
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Old Thursday 30th June 2016, 16:25   #20
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In the U.K. add 20% extra increase courtesy Brexit.

What do we cut out? Wine, women or song?

Surely not all three.
My woman would not allow me to have women, so that's not such a difficult choice
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Old Friday 1st July 2016, 12:28   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceH View Post
I gave a call to Vanguard USA to get a general idea of the differences between the current ED II and the upcoming ED IV.

- It will have improved prism glass (as mentioned above).
- Styling changes (as seen in the Eagle Optics listing).
- Diopter adjustment incorporated in the focus knob (similar to Swaro and Nikon EDG).
- Improved light transmission and CA control.

He said they currently expect them to be available here in the US around late fall. The current Endeavor ED and ED II models will continue in the lineup but at lower price points than the ED IV.
Thanks for the update!
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Old Friday 1st July 2016, 21:20   #22
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Chuck .... You are welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by typo View Post
.......... I did hear the EDIV does not have dielectric prism coatings,....................David
Quote:
Originally Posted by jan van daalen View Post
.........
Price increase round 300,00 euro and diŽlectric coatings.
...........
So one contact indicates no dielectric coatings and another indicates it will have dielectric coatings. We shall remain in suspense!

Personally, I hope the ED IV will have dielectric coatings. It may give it a more neutral color balance and some more contrast as compared to current models. It also seems to be expected now for models $400 and above.
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Old Friday 1st July 2016, 22:29   #23
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Quote:
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So one contact indicates no dielectric coatings and another indicates it will have dielectric coatings. We shall remain in suspense!

Personally, I hope the ED IV will have dielectric coatings. It may give it a more neutral color balance and some more contrast as compared to current models. It also seems to be expected now for models $400 and above.
I learned last Birdfair that Vanguard were using a new designer for the ED IV, but I thought the prototype they showed me was pretty poor, and spelled out the issues I saw to the European manager at the time. It not only needed dielectric coatings but a substantial reworking as well in my opinion. I'm sure others offered similar views but I don't know if that message got back to Taiwan.

All the office could tell me back in March was that shipping had started and that it still didn't have dielectric. They promised to pass on my other comments to R&D. I then heard in the middle of April it had been recalled. I don't imagine for a second it was anything to do with me. Presumably more than one person wasn't happy with what they'd been sent.

I've not heard anything from the UK office yet but I'm sure Jan's info is good. I just hope they've done a whole lot more than change the prism coatings.

David
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Old Saturday 2nd July 2016, 12:15   #24
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Quote:
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I learned last Birdfair that Vanguard were using a new designer for the ED IV, but I thought the prototype they showed me was pretty poor, and spelled out the issues I saw to the European manager at the time. It not only needed dielectric coatings but a substantial reworking as well in my opinion. I'm sure others offered similar views but I don't know if that message got back to Taiwan.

All the office could tell me back in March was that shipping had started and that it still didn't have dielectric. They promised to pass on my other comments to R&D. I then heard in the middle of April it had been recalled. I don't imagine for a second it was anything to do with me. Presumably more than one person wasn't happy with what they'd been sent.

I've not heard anything from the UK office yet but I'm sure Jan's info is good. I just hope they've done a whole lot more than change the prism coatings.

David
Correct, they've raised the price also
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Old Saturday 2nd July 2016, 15:21   #25
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How many binocular designers are there in the world?
Also how many in each continent?

Are binocular designers originally lens designers?
Are they all 40 year plus age?
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