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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 19:56   #10326
Sy V
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Probably not mate... just the LGRE variety...
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 20:18   #10327
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I sometimes think hides are more hassle than they are worth .....

As John alluded to earlier, whilst this is hugely disappointing, there may be a silver lining. This gives us an opportunity to review the North Moors and consider what species we are trying to attract, what locations give the best views of the pool and reedbed, if there is an opportunity to create a shoreline etc etc. Obviously this may not be something that can be achieved at the drop of a hat but its worth looking at the opportunities. If there is to be a replacement hide its construction will need to be carefully thought out as this is the second hide we have lost to arson in this location.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 20:23   #10328
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Hide burnt down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sy V View Post
Scumbag b4st4rds!
Let's hope the Trust's insurance covers this and that this unfortunate development has no impact on the planned new West Moors hide construction.
This is very distressing news! I think it's worth mentioning something Guy and I witnessed on Sunday morning during the storm, which may, or may not be related to the hide burning down.

We were sat in the East Hide @ Moors Pool at around 11:30 in the morning when there was a massive 'explosion' just to the left and behind the north hide - we can only assume it was the overhead power cables arcing in the wind. There were sparks and smoke about 20 feet in the air. The noise put everything up from the water. This then reoccurred again half an hour later. I remember saying at the time, bl**dy hell, you wouldn't want to be in the other hide with that going on - it's going to catch fire!

Now it might just be coincidence, but what if the same thing happend last night? I think it's definitely worth the Trust investigating what we witnessed and whether it may be the culpritt?

Just a thought.

Cheers,

Si
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 20:24   #10329
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Out of the Ashes rises the Phoenix

Although it is very sad about the NM hide being burnt down, we have to take a positive from it.
Over the last couple of years I have discussed improvements to the North Moors reed bed with many birders and work party participants. The overwhelming consensus is that the reed bed is less than vigorous in places and for the most part in need of some remedial action. The extent of the reed bed is less than it was 15 years ago, so we had put in place some expansion plans. Which have been submitted to the trust and work could well be done in the next 12 months. However in light of today's incident, these plans could well be of more significance than previously. I always thought the hide was too close to the car park and even more so since the car park was expanded. The future plans would incorporate a 'concrete' hide built into the spoil bank on the west side.
The rationale is to increase the size and quality of reed beds and also create ideal cettis warbler habitat. At present much of the west side is dry and sterile, this because the land is covered in debris from the 'scrape' of several years previous. Much of the new proposed work was from a plan back in 1988 that myself and Stuart C had spoken about. What do you think

The Three diagrams are
1. The present state
2. The action needed
3. The END result.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 20:41   #10330
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No time to comment now John. But you've obviously given the matter some thought. Hairy Si's comments are interesting!
Will throw my tuppence worth in, from work, tomorrow.

SJV
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 20:45   #10331
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Si Hairy one
This is possibly what you heard . It was a tree along out track to the Swan Inn that fell on to the power lines and destroyed the telegraph pole as well.
Must have been a bang
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 20:51   #10332
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[quote=The Hairy Birder;2429718]This is very distressing news! I think it's worth mentioning something Guy and I witnessed on Sunday morning during the storm, which may, or may not be related to the hide burning down.

Really sorry - just realised the hide in question burning down is the Hobby Hide - therefore please ignore this!!
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 21:11   #10333
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Tragic news about the hide. Mindless act. Why or why........idiots.........
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 21:21   #10334
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Record shot of a warbler seen in the bushes behind the East Hide this afternoon / early evening. I'm not great at some warbler IDs unless I can hear them calling... is this a garden warbler?
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 21:41   #10335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck_Pond View Post
Record shot of a warbler seen in the bushes behind the East Hide this afternoon / early evening. I'm not great at some warbler IDs unless I can hear them calling... is this a garden warbler?
Looks good to me - note the dark eye, short but heavy bill (for a warbler), grey legs, the relatively non-descript plumage and the grey to the side of the neck. Will be interesting to see if Des's sighting was of this bird or one elsewhere on the reserve.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 21:41   #10336
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Garden warbler in a blackthorn thicket. Better than a 'record' shot
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 21:42   #10337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck_Pond View Post
Record shot of a warbler seen in the bushes behind the East Hide this afternoon / early evening. I'm not great at some warbler IDs unless I can hear them calling... is this a garden warbler?
Yes.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 21:48   #10338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck_Pond View Post
Record shot of a warbler seen in the bushes behind the East Hide this afternoon / early evening. I'm not great at some warbler IDs unless I can hear them calling... is this a garden warbler?
Great pic Pete, of a pretty skulking species. Grey side of neck is diagnostic.John
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 22:03   #10339
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Thanks for the ID I think someone reported one singing down near the horse chestnut tree earlier in the day.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 22:32   #10340
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Better late than never. Today's highlights.

FLASHES:
Whimbrel (2)-----------------Dunlin (3)
Avocet (10)-------------------LRP (5)
Common Sand (2)-----------Lapwing (2)
Shelduck---------------------Gadwall (pr)
Common Gull (2nd S)-------Linnnet (5)
L Whitethroat reported near Sailing Centre.

MOORS:
Dunlin (2)---------------------Yellow Wagtail (1) +3 reported
Common Sand----------------Oystercatcher (4)
Little Grebe-------------------Common Tern (3)
Kestrel------------------------Buzzard (5)
Peregrine---------------------Cormorant (1)
Whitethroat-------------------Garden Warbler opposite 'Lifestyles'
Teal (2 fem)------------------Tufted Duck (30)
Snipe (1 reported to right of east hide in wet area)

N MOORS:
Willow Warbler

SAILING POOL:
Grey Wagtail-----------------G C Grebe (8)


Des.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 22:52   #10341
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Impressive designs for North Moors. anything that can increase area of reed bed primarily Upton is wetland reserve and that is were the focus should be. hope we dont have to go to Sandwell extremes with metal drawbridge to hide. I was visiting Attenborough Notts massive reserve they even had a barge and dredger working on new habitat,perhaps not that extreme but would need more than a bucket attached to Si's Landie. Depends on funding perhaps double the prices of the reports 5 not too much for the quality and speed. Would show the Trust we are willing to make our contribution
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 22:54   #10342
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Quote:
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Although it is very sad about the NM hide being burnt down, we have to take a positive from it.
Over the last couple of years I have discussed improvements to the North Moors reed bed with many birders and work party participants. The overwhelming consensus is that the reed bed is less than vigorous in places and for the most part in need of some remedial action. The extent of the reed bed is less than it was 15 years ago, so we had put in place some expansion plans. Which have been submitted to the trust and work could well be done in the next 12 months. However in light of today's incident, these plans could well be of more significance than previously. I always thought the hide was too close to the car park and even more so since the car park was expanded. The future plans would incorporate a 'concrete' hide built into the spoil bank on the west side.
The rationale is to increase the size and quality of reed beds and also create ideal cettis warbler habitat. At present much of the west side is dry and sterile, this because the land is covered in debris from the 'scrape' of several years previous. Much of the new proposed work was from a plan back in 1988 that myself and Stuart C had spoken about. What do you think
Hi John, I think anything that could attract Marsh Harrier and Bittern to the midlands is worth while, I do think that the car park needs to be bigger though, people still seem to park just on the one side as it's not big enough to park both sides.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 22:59   #10343
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Hi John, I think anything that could attract Marsh Harrier and Bittern to the midlands is worth while, I do think that the car park needs to be bigger though, people still seem to park just on the one side as it's not big enough to park both sides.
Geoff
Hi Geoff - a second row can park opposite but normally at an angle. This typifies the ongoing battle in nature reserves across the country of habitat vs visitor facilities.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 23:04   #10344
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Depends on funding perhaps double the prices of the reports 5 not too much for the quality
Very kind of you to say so Trev - you can pay 5 for your copy

In all fairness we have been struggling to sell the full print run in recent years so have only done 40 so far - very easy to print further copies off though if required. Whilst 2.50 is the quoted price if people wish to donate more that would be fantastic.
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Old Wednesday 2nd May 2012, 23:19   #10345
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Hi Geoff - a second row can park opposite but normally at an angle. This typifies the ongoing battle in nature reserves across the country of habitat vs visitor facilities.
Hi Phil, Maybe you need to paint some lines then so people know.
Regarding the hide, It's a sign of the times with vandalism, but it was never a hide that I wanted to stay in for more than five minutes. As you know,we still haven't got any hides at Middleton Lakes but I have found that a few benches in the right places can be just as good as a hide, in fact the visibility can be better.
Geoff
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2012, 08:46   #10346
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I like the look of the third design John, bittern ditches would be great for attracting this species over winter, and like you say attracting breeding cettis would be fantastic.

IMO there's absolutely no need for a bigger car park, the more habitat for wildlife the better. I've only seen it full on one occassion so I went and parked on the sailing pool one
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2012, 08:59   #10347
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Quote:
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... Over the last couple of years I have discussed improvements to the North Moors reed bed... What do you think
John

You have given this some thought (is there an area of the Reserve that you don't have plans for? No don't answer that!) and I'm sure you've incorporated the more salient points of feedback from other birders, into your plans.
I like the concept. I really like the 'back-of-fag-packet' style presentation.
Just some comments for consideration.
I agree that the hide should move further north away from the car park. Building it into the spoil bank would give less of a vista for viewing (that channel looks pretty constricted) but if raised (or double-decked even) I think you could get the best out of the situation for birders and 'togs.
I would also consider adding rustic viewing panels at the end of the Bittern Ditches and the deep open channel near the car park too.

Just my thoughts in this open forum (fully expecting at least some disagreement)...

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Old Thursday 3rd May 2012, 09:03   #10348
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I like the look of the third design John, bittern ditches would be great for attracting this species over winter, and like you say attracting breeding cettis would be fantastic.

IMO there's absolutely no need for a bigger car park, the more habitat for wildlife the better. I've only seen it full on one occassion so I went and parked on the sailing pool one
I agree. If a bigger car park were ever needed then the only option IMO would be for the Trust to acquire adjacent land to build it on (A38 field). The current car-park on the north moors has already swallowed up habitat and I do not wish to see it extended further, personally. At the moment I think it is probably adequate 90%+ of the time.
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2012, 12:02   #10349
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John

You have given this some thought (is there an area of the Reserve that you don't have plans for? No don't answer that!) and I'm sure you've incorporated the more salient points of feedback from other birders, into your plans.
I like the concept. I really like the 'back-of-fag-packet' style presentation.
Just some comments for consideration.
I agree that the hide should move further north away from the car park. Building it into the spoil bank would give less of a vista for viewing (that channel looks pretty constricted) but if raised (or double-decked even) I think you could get the best out of the situation for birders and 'togs.
I would also consider adding rustic viewing panels at the end of the Bittern Ditches and the deep open channel near the car park too.

Just my thoughts in this open forum (fully expecting at least some disagreement)...

SJV
Sy
The spoil bank would be above the pool level, but I think a more intimate hide slightly more raised than the Hen pool hide. In front would be a permanently open pool surrounded by reeds and channels in reeds spreading to the open water. The bittern channels on the east bank would be viewed from the hide. The new screens panels at the end of the North Moors do look good and it will be interesting how they perform in the next few months when the reeds start to grow. My plans are only a base line , if we get it accepted in principle we can add all the finer details later. I also agree with Trev (discors) that if we did the fund raising the work would get done more quickly.
CAR PARK As Dave has already alluded to, the car park did destroy some good habitat and it was a pity adjacent land wasn't purchased. I think (extreme) that we should incorporate a fence and gate at the car park with a combination lock. The gate could be locked over night and then opened up in the morning if wardens are on site, failing that, people could let themselves in and out. The expanded car park does seem to attract more non birders than previously, including normal people parking up to have their dinner. I have even come across travelling salesmen sleeping in their cars pulling off the M5 to do so. It's is amazing how many people know about the place. John
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2012, 12:06   #10350
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John
I like the concept. I really like the 'back-of-fag-packet' style presentation.
SJV
That's some fag packet;
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