Why so many "ID this bird" posts? (1 Viewer)

Steve Lister · Mar 9, 2005

I quite enjoy puzzling over IDs of birds from far flung parts of the globe. It is a useful revision exercise for birds that I saw years ago and have got a vague recollection of.

Actually got one right last week as well!!

Steve

Steve Lister · Mar 9, 2005

And by the way, I had completely overlooked the similar thread as the title, Potentially Controversial......., and it being Ruffled Feathers did not attract me at all. A lesson for thread starters maybe?

steve

Grousemore · Mar 9, 2005

Steve Lister said:
And by the way, I had completely overlooked the similar thread as the title, Potentially Controversial......., and it being Ruffled Feathers did not attract me at all. A lesson for thread starters maybe?

steve

Hear hear; it was a very interesting Thread and I enquired earlier if it should be moved to the general forums.
On the subject here, I enjoy ID Threads, with the only proviso that I don't feel helpful towards those (few) posters who are either looking for an easy 'Tick' and/or are looking for the correct label to put on the posted pic in their personal gallery.

KC Foggin · Mar 9, 2005

Jeff Bouton said:
KC -

Is there really a point where you have more guides than necessary?!?... NOw you sound like my wife!

Best,

Jeff Bouton (way beyond hooked!)

Jeff, I'm a sucker for any birdguides and yet I rarely actually use more than 2 - Peterson & Kaufmann

HelenC · Mar 9, 2005

I'm not suggesting that people should not be encouraged to find things in the field guide for themselves, but I think it's good that people feel free to ask for any 'trivial' IDs on here. Birders can be rather intolerant, if that's the word I'm looking for. I've kept my mouth shut and lost opportunities of learning something rather than betray my ignorance plenty of times. I've also picked up really useful ID tips from more experienced birders that the field guide doesn't mention at all. Another thing to remember is that the field guide can be a bit daunting when you're starting completely from scratch and don't know roughly what type of bird you're looking for.

Yernagates · Mar 9, 2005

I wholeheartedly agree that newbies should be encouraged to post even quite "easy" ID questions. I think it's a very good way of welcoming beginners -- and even a simple bird guide can be daunting if you are unfamiliar with birds. Just because I find it easy doesn't make it easy for you.

It's hard to remember just how much background knowledge one is using to identify even easy birds -- and it takes time to acquire that knowledge. If you doubt this, try identifying some wildlife you are wholly unfamiliar with -- grasses, say, or beetles. (Would you be looking in the grass section for a sedge? Or perhaps it's a rush, quill-wort or bur-reed...?)

Secondly, it's surprising how often the "easy" bird turns out to be something out of the ordinary -- a migrant subspecies, a hybrid, an aberrant or whatever.

Thirdly, simple IDs from other parts of the world give me a chance to see some commoner exotic birds as well as the rarer ones a more experienced birder might be looking at. (Sometimes I even find myself identifying birds in the background of news reports or wildlife films which I'd not have had a hope of a few months ago.)

Personally I find all ID posts fascinating!

Richard

crispycreme · Mar 9, 2005

Agreed, Helen. If there's one thing the birding community can't afford in this present day, it's (the appearance of) disdain for others. If we're not trying to nurture and encourage potential new birders, what's the point? Sure, some folk pass through here with the sole desire of labeling an odd photo for their scrapbook, but you never know! Simple courtesy and a gentle nudge can work wonders, and one more person might become curious about his/her environment and care about its survival. Small victories are about all we can hope for right now. In the PR wars, birders and other naturalists are losing (at least here in the States). We're even blamed for forest fires! :eek!: It only fans the flames (so to speak) if we act snobbishly towards someone trying to ID a House Finch. All businesses know that a customer's bad experience will be 4 times as likely to be mentioned as a good one. We don't have the luxury any more of lounging in our conceit. Without new converts we'll all be changing our hobbies one day.

And again, it's not like we're getting 20 or 30 new threads a day, so there's plenty of real estate on the front page of this forum for easy ID threads.

jimtfoto · Mar 9, 2005

Let me add my two cents (Cdn) worth ... I am new to birding and easly have moret a dozen different books ... however, books are limited in representations of birds. I have posted pix on this forum in the past when I become stuck ... after poring over all my books. The similarities in some species can be quite daunting to new birders, and any help I have received from other members of these forums has been given rather generously, and much appreciated.

cheers,
jim

Nightranger · Mar 9, 2005

jobkjoseph said:
Many of them are IDable with ease if one has a bird guide.

I urge members to procure a bird guide & start IDing birds on your own, rather than depend of such a forum for every other bird, be it trivial or not.

best regards,
Job

Hi Job,

I think ID-ing requires a massive amount of confidence even for more experienced bird watchers. A great example came when CJW asked for a second opinion on a IoM wader recently and I happen to know Chris is a very experienced bird watcher. All the same, it is worth noting that BF is a popular site and there are people at all levels of skill and we should never forget that one of the biggest messages in the bird watching community is to talk to others. Much of my knowledge was gleaned by talking to people who were infinitely more experienced than me such as Dr Richard Arnold.

Ian

Andrew Whitehouse · Mar 9, 2005

jimtfoto said:
Let me add my two cents (Cdn) worth ... I am new to birding and easly have moret a dozen different books ... however, books are limited in representations of birds. I have posted pix on this forum in the past when I become stuck ... after poring over all my books. The similarities in some species can be quite daunting to new birders, and any help I have received from other members of these forums has been given rather generously, and much appreciated.

cheers,
jim

Just to follow this up, I think a lot of experienced birders underestimate their own skills or perhaps don't even recognise these as being skills in the first place. Looking up a bird in a field guide becomes second nature to most birders but for somebody starting out it can be very difficult. As birders we learn to use ID guides and we learn to look at birds in particular ways that are compatible with how they are illustrated and described within these books. This is a skill that beginners need to learn. Just have a look at manuals on using computer software or repairing cars (two things I struggle to get my head around) to imagine how daunting a bird ID guide might be to someone unaccustomed to using them.

White*Kite · Mar 9, 2005

I have no problem with those new to birding posting pics here for ID help, as the replies given almost always give more than just the name of the bird - people usually are very helpful at highlighting good ID points for future reference. I don't see what the harm is if it's helping people to learn, and to be honest I always enjoy looking at the posts anyways, it can be fun.

John Cantelo · Mar 9, 2005

I've mixed feelings on this one. At one level I'm with the "ain't it good to share and have on tap those more knowledgable than yourself" brigade. It's one of the great joys of birding to be able to encourage others share your knowledge and put something back. Now that I've a few years (!) experience under my belt, I find sharing & showing birds to others very rewarding. And yet .... when I see the umpteenth 'easy' ID request made ny the same person I worry. My concern being that people who opt for this easy gambit simply don't learn as quickly or as thoroughly as they would do if the put in a bit of book work first. It's too passive and .... dare I use the 'L' word? .... too lazy.
Then again if that's the way folks want to go who am I to be snotty about it? The on;y reason I haven't posted a 'grasshopper' for ID is the fact that I'm too damn dozy to learn how the reduce picture files to a managable size! John

James Blake · Mar 9, 2005

Andrew W, I think you are spot-on about the skill involved in using field guides - especially maybe the poorer guides. I remember on one of my very first birding expeditions staring at a wader that was a few metres in front of me. I looked hard at my field guide for a while but couldn't work out if it was a Knot or a Grey Plover!

A few people may just not be into learning how to ID birds, and I don't see this as a problem. Consider someone who enjoys watching their garden birds, with no interest in any thing else. One day something unusual turns up, they photograph it, they don't even own a field guide - the obivous thing to do is post the picture on an internet forum.

James

Stephen Dunstan · Mar 9, 2005

Andrew Whitehouse said:
Just to follow this up, I think a lot of experienced birders underestimate their own skills or perhaps don't even recognise these as being skills in the first place.

I said something similar in the other thread on these lines. It isn't always because people are lazy, it is often because they don't want to be made to look stupid. This is probably why people don't always make a suggested ID as recommended elsewhere on this thread. And like it or not many birders are very good at making those with lesser ID skills than themselves look or feel stupid.

Stephen.

pauco · Mar 9, 2005

Andrew Whitehouse said:
Just to follow this up, I think a lot of experienced birders underestimate their own skills or perhaps don't even recognise these as being skills in the first place. Looking up a bird in a field guide becomes second nature to most birders but for somebody starting out it can be very difficult. As birders we learn to use ID guides and we learn to look at birds in particular ways that are compatible with how they are illustrated and described within these books. This is a skill that beginners need to learn. Just have a look at manuals on using computer software or repairing cars (two things I struggle to get my head around) to imagine how daunting a bird ID guide might be to someone unaccustomed to using them.

Andrew, thats the best analogy yet, :clap:

doug_newman · Mar 9, 2005

I find this forum quite enjoyable. Particularly if you go through a spell where you can't get out and about, iy keeps you from getting too rusty.

johnmoonie · Mar 9, 2005

Well put Andrew. From experience I have seen new birders in UK debating bird identification from a European field guide and looking up a lot of species that would be a major rarity in UK. On the other hand a "too simple" guide often does not cover the many different plumages and in between plumages we see. Sometimes difficult to "butt" in and help people but we should all try.

Dimitris · Mar 9, 2005

I'm #### with PCs.I didn't know how to shrink pic until recently (today to be precise) and still am dodgy about it.But with help from friends that know and books I'm sure I'll learn.I suppose the same goes with birding...

But nothing gets done if u are lazy...

Dimitris

Mickymouse · Mar 9, 2005

Well I like the ID threads and specially the more usual birds, gives me a chance to get them and as every teacher knows practice and repetition is the way to learn, so keep 'em coming.

Mick

Sandra (Taylor) · Mar 9, 2005

IDs

Here, here, Mick.

I find the ID questions very interesting - especially when 2 or 3 really good 'identifiers' start getting down to the nitty-gritty when the difference between two species is a tiny little feather on the tail! Well, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit - what I mean is : keep them coming

Sandra :cat: :cat:

Why so many "ID this bird" posts? (1 Viewer)

Senior Birder, ex County Recorder, Garden Moths.

Senior Birder, ex County Recorder, Garden Moths.

Senior Member

Very, very long time member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Moment

Professor of Listening

Forever delayed

Well-known member

chasing the shadow of a lowskimming gull

Registered User

&#1057;&#1090;&#1072;&#1088;&#1083;&#1080;&#1085;&

Well-known member

Well-known member

Birdwatcher in Oz

Ubuntu Linux user

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread

Старлин&