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Old Sunday 21st October 2007, 18:06   #1
The Analog Kid
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Pine Bunting??

So what you think? Is this Pine Bunting,Yellowhammer x Pine Bunting hybrid or just Yellowhammer?
Any help appreciated

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Old Sunday 21st October 2007, 19:46   #2
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Hello.

I have some problems seeing if those edges to the primaries are pure white, it doesn´t seem to be that way in my eyes. However there seems to be a slight contrast between the edges on the primaries and secondaries- those on the primaries looks whiter.

There also seems to be no yellow in the plumage - at least not in my monitor, which would be in favour of Pine.
There´s some exellent comparision images of 1cy Pine and some Yellowhammer images by Dick Forsman in the Tarsiger gallery.

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/inde...el=2&sel=&sel=

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/inde...el=2&sel=&sel=

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Old Sunday 21st October 2007, 19:59   #3
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Very good candidate indeed, ...

But somehow e.g. the pattern of ear coverts (thus they are not very clear) and the colour of head (basic colour is rather dark) disturb me....
Does anyone know what is the difference in the colour of underwing coverts between these related species?
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Old Sunday 21st October 2007, 20:09   #4
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From: Daniele Occhiato, 2003. Identification of Pine Bunting, Dutch Birding 25:1.

The underwing of famale Yellowhammer is yellowish and of Pine Bunting white.
The undertail coverts of Yellowhammer are usually heavily streaked, while they are only lightly streaked in Pine.
The plain grey neck is more typical of Yellowhammer than Pine Bunting.
The tips of the median coverts should be white in (fresh) Pine Bunting, while they are buffish in Yellowhammer.
The article seems to confirm Hannu's observation about the dubious head pattern, but the picture Daniele draws of a juvenile Pine Bunting looks rather a lot like the Finnish bird.
Interesting for sure!
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Old Monday 22nd October 2007, 15:01   #5
The Analog Kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenospiza View Post
From: Daniele Occhiato, 2003. Identification of Pine Bunting, Dutch Birding 25:1.

The underwing of famale Yellowhammer is yellowish and of Pine Bunting white.
Okay,
What do say about this one --->CLICK
Seems to me it has white underwing.

Thanks for your help!
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Old Monday 22nd October 2007, 15:38   #6
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With the whiteish eye ring it looks a little like a female/immature ortolan bunting?

After looking up a different book though, I see that pine buntings also have this white eye ring, so I would have to go with the pine bunting. Its very hard iding these immature or non breeding plummaged buntings. The general field guides seem to dwell on the more obvious male breeding plummage.

Last edited by lulie : Monday 22nd October 2007 at 18:54.
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Old Monday 22nd October 2007, 19:02   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenospiza View Post
From: Daniele Occhiato, 2003. Identification of Pine Bunting, Dutch Birding 25:1.
The article seems to confirm Hannu's observation about the dubious head pattern, but the picture Daniele draws of a juvenile Pine Bunting looks rather a lot like the Finnish bird.
Interesting for sure!
This bird is obviously 1cy bird. The colour of underwing refers rather clearly to Pine Bunting, but of course we have to notice other features too, because these species hybridize. I did not find any pics from 1cy male bird.
But e.g. 1cy female can be rather unclear head pattern, but not so much as the follow pic shows us:
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Kakko/Embleu_001.jpg
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