"porro curious"... (1 Viewer)

i have a nice selection of roofs which are meeting my needs very well:

Conquest HD 8x32 & 10x42
Swaro CL Pockets in 8x25 and 10x25

Yet, I still have an interest in what else out there may be of interest or value to me in magnifying my views of the world.

Thus... I ask about porros. I've heard that they offer an unsurpassed 3D view.

Since I'm well covered with the features provided by good roofs, what would you recommend I consider for a great pair of top notch porros?

Nikon 8x or 10x SE, if you can find a good used one. If you would rather just purchase new, then look at the Swarovski Habicht, or the Nikon EII that is easily found on ebay.

Thought I would add a few things you might find interesting, if you haven't seen them yet. If you have a few minutes, check out the following links that concern the Nikon porros.

http://scopeviews.co.uk/Nikon10x42SE.htm

http://www.allbinos.com/214-binoculars_review-Nikon_SE_8x32_CF.html

http://www.allbinos.com/270-binoculars_review-Nikon_8x30E_II.html

http://www.betterviewdesired.com/Nikon-Superior-E-8x32.php

"Thus... I ask about porros. I've heard that they offer an unsurpassed 3D view."

The TYPE of prism is not the reason; it is the separation of the objectives that does it. If Porro objectives were separated by 7 inches, and the objectives of a roof were separated by 10 inches, the roof would be superior in that regard.

But, I'll bet that guy would have a hard time buying hats!

Bill

ZDHart said:

i have a nice selection of roofs which are meeting my needs very well:

Conquest HD 8x32 & 10x42
Swaro CL Pockets in 8x25 and 10x25

Yet, I still have an interest in what else out there may be of interest or value to me in magnifying my views of the world.

Thus... I ask about porros. I've heard that they offer an unsurpassed 3D view.

Since I'm well covered with the features provided by good roofs, what would you recommend I consider for a great pair of top notch porros?

Click to expand...

Along with that 3D view they also have another curious effect. Subjects viewed through porro prism binoculars look smaller than when they are viewed through roof prisms of the same power.

Bob

ceasar said:

Along with that 3D view they also have another curious effect. Subjects viewed through porro prism binoculars look smaller than when they are viewed through roof prisms of the same power.

Bob

Click to expand...

That may relate to the size of the field.

Bill

WJC said:

That may relate to the size of the field.

Bill

Click to expand...

That might be a reason. I read somewhere it is an optical illusion but I'm not sure "illusion" is the right way to describe it. Perhaps perspective is better. I've only done this comparison with an 8x30 E2 and 8x32 SE against a Nikon 8x32 LX L and a 8x42 Vortex Diamondback and that was a while ago.

I also noticed that the further away the bird was the less the effect seemed to be. At infinity it seemed to even out.

Bob

WJC said:

That may relate to the size of the field.

Bill

Click to expand...

Bill:

I like your avatar, I cannot tell if that is a big binocular or a collimator.

I do know some fixers use the Mark V, and I would like to
know more about repair.

That would be a nice new thread, if you have the time.

I just changed my avatar, and yes, I also like Porro's.

Jerry

NDhunter said:

I just changed my avatar, and yes, I also like Porro's.

Jerry

Click to expand...

Jerry --

Regarding your avatar:

Showoff!

:king:

ceasar said:

Along with that 3D view they also have another curious effect. Subjects viewed through porro prism binoculars look smaller than when they are viewed through roof prisms of the same power.

Bob

Click to expand...

That's actually the other way around. Due to the "roof illusion" objects viewed through roofs, particularly at close range seem larger than the specified magnification. It is rightfully called an "illusion" because objects appear larger than they should be at the specified magnification, just as "objects may appear farther away than they are" in your passenger side car mirror.

In this case, it's not related to the size of the FOV. Looking at the 8x32 LX and 8x32 SE side by side at a bird at close range, the bird appears larger in the roof, but the FsOV are almost the same (7.8* vs. 7.5*).

<B>

brocknroller said:

That's actually the other way around. Due to the "roof illusion" objects viewed through roofs, particularly at close range seem larger than the specified magnification. It is rightfully called an "illusion" because objects appear larger than they should be at the specified magnification, just as "objects may appear farther away than they are" in your passenger side car mirror.

In this case, it's not related to the size of the FOV. Looking at the 8x32 LX and 8x32 SE side by side at a bird at close range, the bird appears larger in the roof, but the FsOV are almost the same (7.8* vs. 7.5*).

<B>

Click to expand...

Brock,

That's what I wrote. Except I wrote it "the other way around" as you can tell when you read my 2nd sentence again.

And I'm still wondering if the word "illusion" is correct because if you are using a roof prism and not comparing what you see with it to a porro prism of the same power what you are seeing is not an illusion, it's reality.

Bob

If you bought a Kronos BPWC2 6x30 binocular, then you could say, "I am curious yellow." :smoke:

You can buy both the 8x32 and 10x42 SE for the same price or less than you did for your two Swaro compacts.

Another great series of porros is the EII- 8x30 and 10x35. They are no long sold in the U.S., you have to buy them from Japan or Hong Kong, and the SEs were recently discontinued by Nikon. You picked a tough time to get curious about porros, at least at the premium level. The last man standing is the Swaro Habicht series.

If it's just the 3-D effect you're curious about, you don't need to drain your IRAs, a Nikon Action EX will give you a very nice 3-D view for $129.

Brock

The 8x32SE's are very, very nice. They might be hard to find, but should be in the same price bracket as your other bins.

NDhunter said:

Bill:

I like your avatar, I cannot tell if that is a big binocular or a collimator.

I do know some fixers use the Mark V, and I would like to
know more about repair.

That would be a nice new thread, if you have the time.

I just changed my avatar, and yes, I also like Porro's.

Jerry

Click to expand...

Hi Jerry:

It's a Mk3 120mm Big Eyes.

Thinking I'd be a Captain's until I croaked, I sold the two beautiful, full size Mk Vs I had in my basement. I sure wish I had them back, now. One went to Orion; the other went to the repair portion of Deutsche-Optik when Mike Rifkin threw in the towel.

You may start a repair thread, talking about the things that are important to you, and I’ll be glad to chime in. However, the stroke had me away for some time. Since my return, I have gotten the sense that some of my assertion will be placed on trial by those whose optical knowledge rests more on speculation and opinion that on empirical experience. If that starts, I’ll just walk away. I believe that each forum, such as BF, should allow all opinions equally. However, if the gaining of knowledge is the goal, we can’t say all opinions have the same value. That may not be a politically correct stance, but it’s academically sound.

“However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.”—Winston Churchill

I like Porros, too. I have some roofs, but I never use them. To make a roof as good as a similar Porro, takes more work, more waste and, as a result, more $$$$.

Bill |=)|

Brock... that's the thing... I'm not sure what I am after here, really... aside from just being curious.

Would someone with the roofs that I already have benefit from adding a pair of porros to the mix? If there isn't a significant benefit from adding porros to what I already have in roofs, then I guess I can just rest easy and my pocket book is secure. I wouldn't want to spend even more money on bins than I already have, unless I would find an experience in viewing that is dramatically improved in some way. If the primary benefit of porros is to achieve what roofs can achieve, but at lower cost, well... the horses have already left the barn, in my case.

Well, there's great light transmission also. If the sun isn't quite up yet and I know there are birds at the feeders, I grab the Swaro 7x42 Habicht. They are my go-to low light binos.

ZDHart said:

Brock... that's the thing... I'm not sure what I am after here, really... aside from just being curious.

Would someone with the roofs that I already have benefit from adding a pair of porros to the mix? If there isn't a significant benefit from adding porros to what I already have in roofs, then I guess I can just rest easy and my pocket book is secure. I wouldn't want to spend even more money on bins than I already have, unless I would find an experience in viewing that is dramatically improved in some way. If the primary benefit of porros is to achieve what roofs can achieve, but at lower cost, well... the horses have already left the barn, in my case.

Click to expand...

Hi there, I have to say that with the binoculars you already own, I can't really see any benefit from adding porro's other than the pleasure of owning and using a binocular that gives a slightly different viewing experience, but which is not necessarily any better. I would probably add a porro just for the hell of it, but then I'm an addict. If you want a modern top porro for general use, I think PhilR has already mentioned the best bet, the 8x30 Nikon E11, or maybe the SE 8x32, I would also say that the Swift Audubon 8.5x44, although older, gives stunning wide angle views. I have a fair collection of both, and they are nearly all enjoyable to use for a variety of reasons, I love using my older porro's but none give any benefit over the one I generally take out with me, my Zeiss roof.
One inexpensive Porro that might compliment what you already have is the Kowa YF 6x30, just $99 here : http://www.eagleoptics.com/binoculars/kowa/kowa-yf-6x30-binocular
Best wishes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95019762@N07/

I agree with Phil and Ben. If you can get one of the three porros mentioned it will be worth owning. You could also consider the 10x35 E2 if you want a 10x and can find one for sale. I find that the E2's are easier to use than the SEs are. I assume you have read about the
"kidney beaning" blackout effect some people get when they use a Nikon SE?

Swarovski's porros are excellent and expensive but you can still find them new if you want to pay the price. Proud Papa will be happy to sell you one! You can find info about their prices and specs on Camera Land's website.

Bob

Thank you, all, for the comments. I will look into the suggested models, though it sounds like perhaps I should give my pocketbook a rest for the time being.

You good folks on this forum have been extremely helpful to me thus far. And also helped me spend far more on bins than I ever thought I would, but I'm thrilled to have and use the fantastic Zeiss and Swaro roofs that I now use everyday!

ZDHart said:

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Would someone with the roofs that I already have benefit from adding a pair of porros to the mix? ...................

Click to expand...

It depends .... on individual objectives.

I do not think a roof or porro is better than the other. However each offer a different view so one may be more appropriate than the other, considering what you what to optimize.

When using binoculars, I am either in "spotting mode" or else in "viewing mode".

Spotting mode is when I am looking primarily at just certain areas of the view. Examples are when searching individual bushes and branches looking for game, or studying the fine detail of a bird, or part of a bird.

Viewing mode is when I try to take in the whole scene at once. Examples would be observing a whole flock of ducks on a pond and trying to take in the interaction among the flock, or admiring a landscape, or when trying to take in all the natural beauty that is in front of me.

I find that a roof works best for me when I am using them for spotting because as Bob mentioned, the subject seems closer and thus less concentration on my part to pick up the detail. Actually, power is power, so this is an apparent phenomenon rather than a real difference.

A porro provides a more realistic view with apparent greater depth of field and more realistic scaling of what is being viewed. The porro provides me a much more satisfying image when taking in the whole view at once.

I recall from some of your other posts that you are a photographer and that you enjoy viewing all the birds simultaneously gathered behind your home. This makes me think you would appreciate the benefits when viewing the whole scene with a porro.

Porros I currently have are Nikons 8X30 EII, 10X35 EII and a 8X32SE. If the goal is to achieve the most realistic impressive view of the whole scene, then the choice among these three is without a doubt the Nikon 8X30 EII. When the conditions are right (back lighting, a staggered scene, variety of colors), the resulting image is spectacular. The 8X results in a greater depth of field and the extra wide view gives a more natural result. The Nikon 8X30 EII gives the best National Geographic moment of any binocular I have ever used.