• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

"One-liner" reviews of all the bins you've bought and sold/returned (2 Viewers)

Binoculars I have owned.

1)NIKON ACTION 7x35 Nice bright wide field of view. Start getting fuzzy 1/3 of the way from the center. Sold.

2)NIKON VOYAGERS 8X25 Rated over Leica by Consumer Guide. Excellent binoculars for the money! Sold.

3)LEUPOLD MESA(PORRO-PRISMS) 10X50 Big improvement over the NIKON ACTIONS! Sold.

4)CANON IS 10X30 Improvement over the LEUPOLD MESAS. Best edge sharpness I have ever seen! Sold.

5)SWAROVSKI EL'S 8x32 Great binoculars! Nice ergonomics! Prefered the optics of the ZEISS FL's 10x42's though. Too expensive for what they are! Sold.

6)ZEISS FL's 10X42 Best optics I have seen. Binoculars are a little heavy. Too expensive for the small improvement over the NIKON MONARCH'S. Own these now.

7)NIKON MONARCH'S 8x42 Best binoculars for the money I have ever had. Very close optically to the ZEISS FL's and lighter and more compact. Own these now. My favorites!

8)NIKON SE'S 10X42 Excellent optics although not as good as the ZEISS FL's. Never liked the ergonomics of them that much. Sold.


DENNIS
 
General three star 8x50's... my dad's old pair... they work... decent glass, way too heavy, uncomfortable. I'll keep them.

Bushnell 10x25... given to me as a gift, left in my truck forgotten for about 10 years until I gave them away. Absolutely horrid. lol

Hendsolt 8x32 Porro Military... used these for a long while and they're decent, not great optics, not enough magnification and fold out rain guards get in the way.... gone

Swarovski 10x42 SLCold... Owned for one day... viewed the Zeiss Dialyt 10x42... Sold and ordered a pair of Zeiss Classic 10x42s.

Zeiss Classic 10x42s... Great handling and I loved the ergonomics, but sold them because after I purchased my 10x42 Ultravids, I found they always stayed on the shelf, but I miss them.

Leica 10x25 BCA... great optics, lightweight, a little hard to steady and left on the shelf too much... gone

Leica 12x50 Trinovid BN... awesome stargazing and monopod glass that I'll keep forever.

Zeiss Dialyt 7x42s... Never looked through better a better view but heavy, long and awkward, and unlike the 10x42s, they were really uncomfortable for me... sold.

Leica 10x42 BL.... great handling, perfect ergonomics and balance, plus the clamshell make these seem much more compact than any other full sized bin and make them easy to take anywhere... definitely keepers.
 
For most of my young life I just "borrowed" binoculars from my dad.

Bushnell Trophy 10X42 - My first (semi) decent binocular purchase. My dad convinced me that an 8X would be better so I immediately took them back to the store and bought a...

Bushnell Trophy 8X32 - For someone who knew nothing about optics this binocular worked just fine for a few years. It was rather dim and the edge sharpness was non-existent, but hey, I didn't know any better. As my knowledge increased I sold to my brother in law and bought...

Pentax DCF WP 8X42 - I got mine when they first came out and were the first mid-priced binocular to incorporate phase correction coating as a part of the package. This is my primary full-size binocular and I doubt I will ever get rid of it. It still provides an image quality that is so close to the high-end models that I can't bring myself to spend the extra cash to replace them. (Especially with the latest round of price increases for the "top 3.")

Which is not to say I have stopped buying binoculars (heaven forbid)

Next I bought a Brunton Litetech 10X50 porro. I don't know why, other than it was cheap ($50) and I couldn't stop myself. It was mediocre at best. I had to constantly readjust both the focus and diopter adjustments and eventually I sold them in a yard sale.

Then there was a 10X42 I bought from Big 5 sporting goods that was utterly horrible. Sold it at the same yard sale as the Bruntons.

Next was a Pentax DCF MC 8X22 - While this binocular does lose some performance to the larger OLs of a full-sized binocular, I was amazed at how good and how useful they really are. This binocular started my love of compacts.

I tried a Bushnell Legend 10X26 - It is a good binocular but, I have decided it is just too big to be considered a true compact. It stays in my SUV.

I recently bought a newly redesigned Pentax DCF MC 8X25. Yes, I already had its brother but, I wanted to see if the upgrade from a 22mm to a 25mm OL really made much of a difference. (It does.) This is the binocular I carry with me all day, every day. Although it will be replaced as soon as I have the cash for a higher end offering (probably a Zeiss ClassiC 10X25 or the Nikon HG 10X25) I doubt I will ever get rid of it.

My latest purchase was a B&L Discoverer 10X42 Porro - This is a fantastic binocular at an even better price ($180 at Cabela's.) Although it is bigger and heavier than a good roof prism, its optics give up nothing to my friend's 10X42 Swarovski EL. I'll be keeping this one for sure.
 
why so many bins?

Swift Audubons (mid 80s) 8.5 x 44 - great for a kid lister
Zeiss 7 x 42 (1990 to present) - the best bins ever
Nikon HG 8 x 32 (2003 to present) - main bins now, lovely image, quick focus

Tim
 
I am going to avoid posting about all of the useless 8x21, 7x35 and 10x50 Bushnell, Tasco and Simmons bins I have owned over the years. I cannot think of anything really positive to say. When reading through my bins keep in mind that many of these I had for less than a few weeks. It pays to have a Cabelas retail outlet within 20 minutes of your home. ;)

Nikon Monarch 10x42:
First good quality bin. Eye opening experience. Returned them because of a weakening central hinge and a loose focus. Subsequent 10x versions had less than desirable optics.

Bushnell Legend 8x32:
Image quality was almost as good as the Monarchs in a more rugged, compact design. Returned them for the XPs.

Pentax DCF-XP 8x33:
Nice compact design for a mid-sized bin. Very bright image for their size. Sold them to a friend who needed a good pair.

Nikon Venturer LX 8x42:
My "go-to" bin. No complaints really though they could be a bit lighter. Image is excellent and I grab them more than any other when heading out for an extended birding trip.

Nikon E series 7x35:
Wonderfully relaxed image. Excellent depth of field. Not as good as SE or EII overall but definitely a keeper. Sold one pair to a gentleman that really needed them and gave the other to a relation.

Nikon Monarch 8x42:
One of the best total packages for the price. Excellent image only bettered by the high end roofs and quality porros. Returned for financial reasons.

Zeiss Conquest 8x30:
Exceptionally crisp center of field image. Wonderful ergonomics and lightweight. Not as bright as my other full sized bins. Sold them for financial reasons.

Leupold Wind River Katmai 8x32:
Most compact 8x32 to date. Nice bright, contrasty image but not as crisp as other bins I have tried. Returned them.

Leupold Wind River Olympic 10x50:
Brightest after the Venturers. Fairly streamlined for such a large objective size. Returned after extended use because they were too large and unwieldy in the field.

Pentax DCF-HS 10x36:
Nice, ergonomic design. Bright, contrasty image but lacked some crispness at times and I learned that 10x just isn't for me. Returned to the store.

Nikon Venturer LX 8x32:
Almost the equal of the 42 mm in image quality. More color fringing around the outermost edge of the image. Excellent ergonomics and overall size. Focus wheel a bit too impercise for my tastes. Sold it.

Nikon Sporter 8x36:
Love the "Walk in" image created by the huge ocular lenses. Eye relief with the cups all the way down was even too much for me. Best performance vs. cost out of the bunch. Lack of phasecoating made them dimmer and less crisp than slightly more expensive phase coated roofs. Returned to store.

Nikon Superior E 8x32:
Best overall image. Bright, great contrast and great resolution. Ergonomics were good though I think that I still prefer a roof in that regard. Still have them.

Nikon E II 8x30:
Widest and near brightest image. Good ergonomics though they may be a bit short for my hands. I am currently trying these bins out and will most likely keep them. Image is very addicting.

Nikon Sportstar 8x25:
Nice wide field of view. Exceptionally good optics for their inexpensive price tag. Very handy when birding isn't primary concern. Still have them.

Nikon Premier LX 8x20:
Best image I have ever seen out of a pair of compacts. Focus wheel a little awkward and short overall length made handling a bit tricky. Returned for financial reasons.

Nikon Action 7x35:
Decent, wide image. Fairly bright. Decent quality for the extremely low price. Eyepiece bridge is weak and much distortion in outer 2/5ths of image. Still have but may trade shortly.
 
Last edited:
Nikon 10x42LX: Solid, heavy, excellent focuser, sharp optics, bright, moderate CA...a keeper.

Nikon 8x42LX: Also solid, heavy, excellent focuser, sharp optics, bright, mild CA...a keeper.

Nikon 8x30EII: Small, light, sharp optics, wide fov, mechanically sound, great price to performance ratio...definitely a keeper.

Nikon 10x35E: Light, mechanically solid, optics sharp at center of fov, considerable field curvature, colors a bit dull due, perhaps, to the lack of state of the art coatings...sold.

Nikon 12x50SE: Excellent ergonomics, sharp optics, eye position important to avoid blackout, solid mechanics, respectable 5° fov, very effective high power hand held binocular...a keeper.

Vixen 8x42DCF: Waterproof, nitrogen filled, decent focuser, balky diopter ring, good feel in the hands, images slightly soft, mild CA, moderate price...sold.
 
Last edited:
I guess this old thread is still alive.

My Nikon 10x36 Sporters were the first good pair I had, I took them on many summer trips and saw lots of birds. Problem: They were a bit dim, and I have a problem with 10x and diopter settings here.

Nikon Monarch 10x42 solved above problem, bright enough so no diopter messing on most trips.

If I had had the patience to wait for the 10X, I would have a useful 8x Sporter AND a 10X Monarch now. On the other hand, I would have missed a few distant ducks and loons in Iceland.

Every binocular is a learning experience.
 
FrankD said:
Nikon E II 8x30:
Widest and near brightest image. Good ergonomics though they may be a bit short for my hands. I am currently trying these bins out and will most likely keep them. Image is very addicting.

I can't quite see the entire field when wearing glasses. Otherwise they are as good as you say. But the leatherette began to slough off mine within three months of receiving them.
 
Tim Allwood said:
why so many bins?

Swift Audubons (mid 80s) 8.5 x 44 - great for a kid lister
Zeiss 7 x 42 (1990 to present) - the best bins ever
Nikon HG 8 x 32 (2003 to present) - main bins now, lovely image, quick focus

Tim

Quite. I'm a three bin man myself.

Zeiss Jenoptem 10x50 (1977 to late 1980s when I dropped down a cliff on Hermaness). Not excatly housebricks, more like a brezeblock round your neck, but great value.

Optolyth Alpib 10x40 (late 1980s on). Still in the class for emergency use (clinched Great Snipe with them). Nice light bins butthe rubber has suffered.

Leica 8x42 BA (mid 1990s on). Heavy I suppose, but I like them.
 
Nikon 10 x SportsLite - Very cheap, but not good quality roof prisms.

Olympic 8 x 25 PCI - Nicely built, decent optics (porro), stiff focusing, big improvement on the above.

RSPB 8x40 ASW - Bright image, great field of view, reasonably lightweight for a porro, certainly similar of standard to your average £200 roof prism (Nikon Sporter, Viking Vistron), but at half the price, but no waterproofing (very similar in feel to a Nikon Action, but better image?).
 
First were some old ones my grandfather gave me. Can't remember the make but they were about the size of those that Rommel used to use in N Africa. Far too heavy for me to use - about the weight of a 25lb field gun. You could spot the Clangers on the moon with them though.

Chubb 7×35. Fairly cheap and have had them many years. Not a bad view although a bit heavy.

Various cheap Tasco etc which have all been ditched.

Leica Ultra 10×25BR. Fantastic and use all the time.
 
first bins i got were $20 compact roofs at Outdoor World, i noticed they were dim, broken

2nd pair were $60 Bushnell Powerview 10x50 porros, horrible, still have

3rd pair were some interesting Tasco 8x30 porros i saw at an estate sale, mistook them for opera glasses at first, the focusing wheel was incredibly stiff and still is, the view is somewhat dim, but i loved the ergonomics, open-hinged design and lightweight too! fit my hands perfectly. got them for $5. the glue on the eyepieces dried up after a short time and the focusing screw came out! fixed but not the same( they are fully coated, 393 ft/yd FOV, does anyone know what these are and how much they sold for?) anyone know of any decent inexpensive 8x30 porros today?

4th pair are Carsons 8x40 Wide Angle as expected these had horrid edges but OK for now

still looking for the perfect bin.........
 
I can't quite see the entire field when wearing glasses. Otherwise they are as good as you say. But the leatherette began to slough off mine within three months of receiving them.

Neither could I because of the shape of my nose and the amount that my eyes are set back into my face. I had to completely remove the rubber eyecups to get the field of view I desired.

To add to my list above.....

Meopta Meostar 8x42: Excellent combination of characteristics especially for the price. Wide, bright, flat field of view with marginal edge distortion. Warm color bias and a little bit more CA than the higher end bins. Otherwise optically almost identical to the Swaro SLC 7x42 I owned.

Meopta Meostar 7x42: Same comments as above with just a slightly reduced apparent field of view and an ever so slightly brighter image. Depth of field seemed identical to the 8x42s.

Meopta Meostar 10x50: Exceptionally bright, wide apparent field of view with a large sweet spot. Optically almost indistinguishable from the Swaro 10x50s but with more CA.

Leica Trinovid 7x42 BN: Extremely wide, bright flat field of view with excellent color representation and little CA. A bit "brickish" because of the lack of thumb indents but otherwise very well balanced. My "hawk watching" bins of choice.

Leica Trinovid 8x32 BN: Extremely comfortable to hold with excellent optics. Very sharp, reasonably wide field of view with moderate edge distortion. Extremely crisp image. These are my daytime, more compact bins.

Zeiss 7x42 FL: Brightest and widest field of view of any bin I have owned. Very ergonomic and lightweight. I would still have these if it were not for the excessive astigmatism and subsequent small sweet spot.

Nikon E II 10x35: Wide, bright, sharp field of view and much lighter in weight than many roof prism glasses of equal optical quality. Extremely short eye relief and lack of waterproofing were their only negatives.

Nikon Monarch 8x36: Extremely compact and ergonomic bin with very good optical quality. Good sharpness and decent sweet spot but the field of view was fairly narrow compared to other 8x3X's on the market. CA was actually more well controlled than some more expensive models I have owned. Focusing knob had some play in it as well.

Nikon Action EX 7x35: Same comments as regular action model with a stiffer eyepiece bridge and waterproofing. Less depth of field but better eye relief than the standard model.

Leupold Wind River Yosemite: Light compact, waterproof porro with a very good level of optical quality considering the price. My favorite inexpensive bin.

Leupold Wind River Cascade Porro: Very bright, flat field of view. Internal focus design is a big step forward for porros. Field of view was too narrow creating more of a tunnel effect than normal for me because of the porro design.

Pentax DCF-SP 8x32: Very ergonomic, fairly compact bins with excellent image quality. At short distances and under normal daytime conditions these bins are only a gnat's hair away optically from their more expensive counterparts. Low levels of CA and a fairly wide flat field. Perfect focus speed and tension only bettered by Nikon LX series.

Minox 7x42 BD BR: Bright, sharp, flat image with excellent overall balance. Narrow apparent field of view for a 7x and stiff focus in colder weather. Definite value for the price.

Meade Montana 7x42: Bushnell/Bausch and Lomb Discoverer look-a-like. Wide field of view but considerable distortion around the outer 1/3rd of the image. Very disconcerting for me. Sweet spot was very bright with a moderately sharp image and good color.

I think that is all for now.
 
Last edited:
Reverse chronological order:

Nikon Premier LXL 8x20: Excellent resolution and contrast, brighter than the high-end Leica or Zeiss 8x20s. Focus at the far end feels completely natural after using them a while.

Zeiss Victory 8-32 FL T: Small, lightweight, and fantastic views. Sharp, bright, contrasty, wide FOV. I just love looking through these.

Zeiss Conquest 8x30: Excellent bins for the going price of $480. Very sharp and excellent contrast but not as bright and with a lesser FOV than high-end bins.

Nikon 8x25 Sportstars: OK for $50.

Fujinon 16x70 FMT SX: Big, heavy, water proof, individual focus eyepeices, decent optics, good for astro with an appropriate tripod and mount.

Leitz Trinovid 7x42 B+BA: Big exit pupil, good contrast and brightness, excellent resolution, very easy to look through and their length and weight make them easier to hold steady, slightly warmer color than the newer bins.
 
Three more within the last year...

William Optics 8x42 APO: Small, well made, sharp images at the center of the fov, views soften considerably toward the edges...sold

Nikon 10x42SE: Very sharp images across the fov, prone to blackouts, well constructed, mediocre accessories (strap, caps, and case), good ergonomics...a keeper

Minolta 7x35 WP/FP: Wide fov, images somewhat softer than Nikon EII, very good optical coatings, long ER, well made, claimed to be waterproof, good price, comfortable to hold, discontinued by (defunct) Konica Minolta...a keeper, for now
 
Last edited:
In August, I sold my Nikon 8x32 SE, which I had bought in 2003. This highly praised binocuclar simply did not work for me. I had troubles with blackouts, that only got worse with time. For some it is a very unfriendly binocular. The lesson learned was that no internet expert can predict how a person interfaces with a binocular.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
Well...
Childhood: A bushnell 7x35 something, with one of those rocker-bare focusers. No idea what happened to them.

College: B&L 7x35 something or other. Cannot remember, think lost in a move., maybe.

Alderblick 7x50 (old model). Excellent porros. Astro only, no close focus really.
At someones house, now.

Celestron 11x80 Astronomy. Excellent (1980+- Japanese/vixen) gave to a friend.

B&L 7x36 Audubon Customs. Porro, very nice. A girlfriend wanted them.

B&L 10x40 Audubon Customs. Very good for low end porro. Still have them, do not know why.

Celestron 10x50 Ultimas, original design. Still one of the best 10x50's. Astro only use. Still have.

B&L 7x26 Audubon Customs. Still have and use. gems. Used to hang out wither as tourist or counter at hawk count sites until 2000, and check lots of vendor's wears. Best compact over all i have used.

Swift Audubon 8.5x44. The old non-armored ones. Somewhat beat up, sentimental object. Lots of hawks flew past these. Still have.

Leica 10x42 BA. Gotten for raptors. Sharp, nice feel. Still have. It is my "travel" dual purpose (astro/bird) instrument.

Zeiss 7x42 "classics". My co-favorite. For me, best ergonomics, view, etc. Like a cool drink for the eyes on a hot day. Obviously, still have.

Another pair (cough, huh, a spare...cough) of 8.5x44 Swift Audubons. Armored. on sale.....Stored.

As my interest in crow study absorbed nearly all related to "bird", a pair of the Swifts, EXCEPT, ED version (when looking at crows ALOT, nice not to have that fringe). Not best total "feel", but the sharpest glass i have. Focus started stiff, and never really loosened. they are going away for adjustment.

Most recent: 8x30 Zeiss Classics, (those 150th anniversary ones). Co-favorite with the other classic model I have. Nearly as good, but smaller. Great hiker, and built like a small, easy to hold, brick. Ya don't have to read the specs to know there is metal under the rubber!
 
FrankD said:
I am going to avoid posting about all of the useless 8x21, 7x35 and 10x50 Bushnell, Tasco and Simmons bins I have owned over the years. I cannot think of anything really positive to say. When reading through my bins keep in mind that many of these I had for less than a few weeks. It pays to have a Cabelas retail outlet within 20 minutes of your home. ;)

Nikon Monarch 10x42:
First good quality bin. Eye opening experience. Returned them because of a weakening central hinge and a loose focus. Subsequent 10x versions had less than desirable optics.

Bushnell Legend 8x32:
Image quality was almost as good as the Monarchs in a more rugged, compact design. Returned them for the XPs.

Pentax DCF-XP 8x33:
Nice compact design for a mid-sized bin. Very bright image for their size. Sold them to a friend who needed a good pair.

Nikon Venturer LX 8x42:
My "go-to" bin. No complaints really though they could be a bit lighter. Image is excellent and I grab them more than any other when heading out for an extended birding trip.

Nikon E series 7x35:
Wonderfully relaxed image. Excellent depth of field. Not as good as SE or EII overall but definitely a keeper. Sold one pair to a gentleman that really needed them and gave the other to a relation.

Nikon Monarch 8x42:
One of the best total packages for the price. Excellent image only bettered by the high end roofs and quality porros. Returned for financial reasons.

Zeiss Conquest 8x30:
Exceptionally crisp center of field image. Wonderful ergonomics and lightweight. Not as bright as my other full sized bins. Sold them for financial reasons.

Leupold Wind River Katmai 8x32:
Most compact 8x32 to date. Nice bright, contrasty image but not as crisp as other bins I have tried. Returned them.

Leupold Wind River Olympic 10x50:
Brightest after the Venturers. Fairly streamlined for such a large objective size. Returned after extended use because they were too large and unwieldy in the field.

Pentax DCF-HS 10x36:
Nice, ergonomic design. Bright, contrasty image but lacked some crispness at times and I learned that 10x just isn't for me. Returned to the store.

Nikon Venturer LX 8x32:
Almost the equal of the 42 mm in image quality. More color fringing around the outermost edge of the image. Excellent ergonomics and overall size. Focus wheel a bit too impercise for my tastes. Sold it.

Nikon Sporter 8x36:
Love the "Walk in" image created by the huge ocular lenses. Eye relief with the cups all the way down was even too much for me. Best performance vs. cost out of the bunch. Lack of phasecoating made them dimmer and less crisp than slightly more expensive phase coated roofs. Returned to store.

Nikon Superior E 8x32:
Best overall image. Bright, great contrast and great resolution. Ergonomics were good though I think that I still prefer a roof in that regard. Still have them.

Nikon E II 8x30:
Widest and near brightest image. Good ergonomics though they may be a bit short for my hands. I am currently trying these bins out and will most likely keep them. Image is very addicting.

Nikon Sportstar 8x25:
Nice wide field of view. Exceptionally good optics for their inexpensive price tag. Very handy when birding isn't primary concern. Still have them.

Nikon Premier LX 8x20:
Best image I have ever seen out of a pair of compacts. Focus wheel a little awkward and short overall length made handling a bit tricky. Returned for financial reasons.

Nikon Action 7x35:
Decent, wide image. Fairly bright. Decent quality for the extremely low price. Eyepiece bridge is weak and much distortion in outer 2/5ths of image. Still have but may trade shortly.

FrankD, do you own a optics Museum? Just kidding, thanks a lot for many insightful reviews of binoculars. You earn my tremendous amount of respect.

My one liners:

1. Leupold Wind River 8x42: PRO: bright image field, easy effortless focus, light weight; Con: pricey, dirt easy to be stuck due to static charge build up. Traded in after short period of ownership
2. Zen-Ray Summit 10x42, PRO: bright image field, easy effortless focus, light weight, inexpensive; Con: I wish they offer diopter locking mechanism (well, almost none of the sub $500 ones offer that)
 
Looks like an interesting thread, in no particular order, I have them all.
1) Ross WW2 10x80 British Battleship Binocs, need Popeye arms to lift, 28mm ER? 4 built in filters, great image.
2) Leica 8x32BA, great image, would like more ER. feel good.
3) Bushnell Custom 10x50, great looking porro, feels really good, solid, great image across 7deg wide field.
4) B&L 7x26, great liittle glass, often taken on walk to beach.
5) Fujinon 9x25 roof. built in radio! horrible, good resolution but very poor ER even without glasses.
6) Fujinon 7x50 FMT Love them , great image , heavy, rubber poor qualiy.
7) Fujinon 7x50 MTR(?) one down from above, great image, ER not as good as above, which is incredible, but rubber really good quality.
8) Zeiss (W. Germany) 8x20 roof compact , I.F. , nice image but a bit difficult to use.
9) Leitz 10x40 roof. Great binoculars, light, no rubber, image a bit soft compared to modern roof or a really good porro.
10) Agfa 10x40 , nice case! fairly good image, porro.
11) US WW2 6x30, IF. (several) very crisp images.
12)Bushnell Rangemaster 7x35. Best Bushnell ever made. 11 deg field, very good image across most of it. Massive prisms, (bigger than on my 20x80)
That'll do for tonight , Watch this Space!!
 
This has been one of the best articles for me in terms of what to look at

This has been one of the best articles for me in terms of what to look at.
My own limited experience has been
1/ Tasco 7x50 -complete rubbish-foggy and little eye relief + poor contrast
2/ Nikon Monarch 8x42 - wow what an improvement -clear, easy to focus and great eye relief
 
Warning! This thread is more than 13 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top