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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

A great opportunity - to get ripped off. (1 Viewer)

As this thread has developed I can kind of see both sides of this arguement now. But I have no real interest in this competition beyond admiring the winning entries so I'm going to bow out of this one!
 
fugl said:
.. What do fruit stands and super markets have to do with anything I've said? I'm not trying to sell anything ...
Click to expand...

Precisely. It's called "undercutting", and it drives prices down, thereby making it harder for professional suppliers to make a living.

So let there be an amateur photo contest. But when they solicit the work of professionals they should respond with equal professionalism and offer respectable compensation for quality work -- especially if they want unlimited license to republish.
 
Robert / Seattle said:
It's called "undercutting", and it drives prices down, thereby making it harder for professional suppliers to make a living.
Click to expand...

So what? That's the way the world works, offer your product at a quality and/or price suitable to the market and you will succeed, if someone else is prepared to do it better, cheaper or for free and you won't.
 
postcardcv said:
True they don't but if you read the t&c's it states "The photographer will retain copyright and where an image or images are reproduced, the photographer will be credited." So they'll credit you but there is no suggestion that you'd be paid. The read the bit below (#11 in the t&cs - http://poty2008.dcmag.co.uk/3913562627509971805/rules.html ) - they reserve the right to use the images in print, at exhibitions, on the web, in promotional material, merchandising and even to enter it in other competitions... and no suggestion of ever paying for it. To me this reads a lot worse than the BW/WHE comp.
Click to expand...

The difference is that the DCmag rules say they can use the photo - "for purposes in connection with the competition". Whereas the BW competition does not impose any such limitations on further publication.
 
Jos Stratford said:
So what? That's the way the world works, offer your product at a quality and/or price suitable to the market and you will succeed, if someone else is prepared to do it better, cheaper or for free and you won't.
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You just described the formula that makes McDonald's so successful.

Hope you like McBurgers.
 
Jos Stratford said:
So what? That's the way the world works, offer your product at a quality and/or price suitable to the market and you will succeed, if someone else is prepared to do it better, cheaper or for free and you won't.
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And what do YOU offer the world that cannot be beaten by someone who is better or cheaper or both ?
 
ThoLa said:
This "funny", often heard argument is flawed in more than one way.

First of all it is a loathsome insult of all hard-working, honest people
who do not lead a parasitic, cynical life by exploiting others. ...
Tom (one man / one component food chain)
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AC/DC said:
C'mon, do we need posts like these? You do have a good point, but your own argument and analogy is heavily flawed ...
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Actually, I found the message, and metaphors that followed, quite apt. Sanitized? No. Useful? Yes.
 
ThoLa said:
And what do YOU offer the world that cannot be beaten by someone who is better or cheaper or both ?
Click to expand...

Somehow I survive.

And so too should a professional photographer - if they have chosen to work in a field dominated by amateurs who, by and large, are not seeking financial reward, then they have to accept that we may not share the same values. If the field is too tough, so change profession. I, for one, would consider it reward enough if, with my permission, a national paper (for example) ran my pictures on their front cover, financial payments would certainly not be the top of my priorities, but I guess I'd be happy with a fraction of the amount the professional would accept.


Terming amateurs, as below, as vain or naive is a tad off the mark, they have a free choice to seek reward however they please.

"It would help if photographers, professional and amateur alike, would stop giving their work away simply for the vain (or naive) aspiration of seeing one's name in print."
 
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Jos Stratford said:
..

Terming amateurs, as below, as vain or naive is a tad off the mark, they have a free choice to seek reward however they please.

"It would help if photographers, professional and amateur alike, would stop giving their work away simply for the vain (or naive) aspiration of seeing one's name in print."
Click to expand...

Apart from charitable donations of images to non-profit groups, I stand by that statement. There's even an accepted term in the industry called "Naive Infringement".
 
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Robert / Seattle said:
Apart from charitable donations of images to non-profit groups, I stand by hat statement.
Click to expand...

We come from different angles. I understand your position, but if money is not so important to me, why should I be driven by it? If I considered it reward enough to see my images published, then why shoud I not be content with that? Are you not proud of your pictures? I fail to see anything vain in my attitude, nor naive if I am not interested in money.
 
Robert / Seattle said:
And I merely expect them to appreciate the consequences of their combined actions.
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Why?

Should I stop picking up hitch-hikers to protect the livelyhood of taxi-drivers?
Or maybe stop sleeping rough in order to help hoteliers?

Sorry to sound short, but why should I censor my actions to protect professionals in the same arena? If they can't hack it, they are in the wrong field.
 
Jos Stratford said:
We come from different angles. I understand your position, but if money is not so important to me, why should I be driven by it? If I considered it reward enough to see my images published, then why shoud I not be content with that? Are you not proud of your pictures? I fail to see anything vain in my attitude, nor naive if I am not interested in money.
Click to expand...


Well, there are plenty of educational publications (Audubon in the US, for example) that would benefit greatly from your pictorial donations. And please consider, my main gripe throughout this thread is not with photographers who give their work away, but with publications (and others) who profit from solicited images without offering fair compensation.
 A donation of images to such end users perpetrates continued abuse and, quite frankly, dumbs down the market.
 
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