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Hawke Frontier ED: another open bridge ED bin from China (1 Viewer)

Kevin Purcell

Well-known member
MacGee mentioned this on another thread as being the same as the Promaster in the UK.

It seems similar but the numbers don't match so it's not the same bin but may use the same enclosure (didn't we do this on another thread ;) ).

So it seems there is more than one OEM doing similar bins (or perhaps the same OEM doing different bins).

They also have a new conventional closed-hinge Hawke Frontier (no ED) for £200.

http://www.hawkeoptics.com/binoculars/frontier.htm
http://www.hawkeoptics.com/reviews/frontier_review_august.pdf

There are also the Optisan, another OEMed open bridge design but without ED AFAIK. They're different in that they also have an open bridge 8x32

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=121470
http://www.birdnet.co.uk/binoculars/optisan.html

I look forward to a review!

http://www.hawkeoptics.com/binoculars/frontier_ed.htm

Phase ED optics
• Magnesium alloy body construction
• BAK4 Prisms
• Twist-up eyecups
• Precise centre focusing
• Close focus 2m
• 'Stay-on' covers
• Hard protective carry case
• Hawke Worldwide Warranty

HA3778 8x43 Roof BAK4 Phase ED

426ft @ 1000yds
142m @ 1000m
16.6mm ER
6.6ft 2m close focus
26.2oz 743g

Compare with

* Power: 8X
* Objective Lens Diameter: 42mm
* Type of Prism: BAK4 Roof
* Prism Coating: Silver and phase coated
* Number of Lens: 8 elements in 6 groups
* Body Construction: Magnesium Alloy
* Objective Glass: Extra Low Dispersion (ED)
* Lens Coating: TRANSBRIGHT, REPELLAMAX, and full broadband multicoatings
* Focus System: Internal center focusing
* Exit Pupil Diameter: 5.2mm
* Eye Relief: 17.2mm
* Field of View: 7.5° - 393 ft. @ 1000 yds.
* Minimum Focusing Distance: 6.56’/2M
* Diopter System: Left eyepiece - ±3
* Waterproof: 1.5m for 3 minutes
* Weatherproof: Nitrogen filled fog proof
* Weight: 27.48 oz.
 
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NW,

Actually it repels water and oily residue...more similar to the Lotutec type coating found on the FLs.

I would like to hear comments from anyone that owns the Hawke model.
 
Do you have any more details on Repellamax, Frank?

I guessed it would be hydrophobic (to bead up raindrops like the Bushnell Rainguard) but I wasn't so sure about lipophobic.

Of course you could just test it with the ELX ED ... just put a big greasy thumbprint on the objective and tell us if it wipes off with a microfiber cloth without leaving a trace ;)
 
Of course you could just test it with the ELX ED ... just put a big greasy thumbprint on the objective and tell us if it wipes off with a microfiber cloth without leaving a trace

Lets say I have tested that one already...and it does. ;)
 
I was kicking around the idea of buying the Frontier ED and/or the Optisan ED model to compare to the Promaster ED. I didn't see any place to buy them in the states. I wonder if these really are the same, if not very similar models, being sold in different markets under different names.
 
I was kicking around the idea of buying the Frontier ED and/or the Optisan ED model to compare to the Promaster ED. I didn't see any place to buy them in the states. I wonder if these really are the same, if not very similar models, being sold in different markets under different names.

My guess is their either coming from the same OEM.

Or perhaps there is one or more optical components OEM (e.g. making ED glass and making open-bridge housings) making those parts available to several OEMs.

But given these bins all seem to be "region" exclusive I suspect there might just be one OEM behind them.
 
So ... my silly assumption about Hawke being "region exclusive" is not actually true in the above post.

It seems no-one in the US buys Hawke binoculars (I've never seen a non-Brit comment on them). But they are available in the US!

http://www.hawkeoptics.com/ordering_info.htm

They sell direct. They even have a 30 day return for a full refund policy. Lifetime warranty (10 years in Europe) limited to the original purchaser. And they have a US dealer list so you may even find them locally to try out. They have a dealer in Downtown Seattle!

http://www.hawkeoptics.com/dealers/usa.htm

So the Hawke Frontier ED is here on their web site

http://www.hawkeoptics.com/binoculars/frontier_ed.htm

Best of all ... the Hawke Frontier ED is only $429.00 plus $10 shipping!

Very interesting. Cheaper than the Promaster. I wonder how good it is?

FrankD? SteveC? Surveyor? Don't you have some spare cash and a Promaster to compare it to ;)

If you are curious the non-ED Frontier models are

FRONTIER PC 8x32 (Green) is $199
FRONTIER PC 8x42 (Green) is $259 (reviewed above)

their older Endurance Close Focus models are a cheaper and without phase coating.

ENDURANCE CF 8x32 (Black) is $149
ENDURANCE CF 8x42 (Black) is $189

They even make porros

HA3820 8X42 WA for $129
Porro BAK4 Fully Multi-Coated

469 feet @ 100yds (8.9 degrees!)
143m @ 1000m
17mm ER
18ft/5.5m close focus (not that close)
27oz/770g
 
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Kevin

Just a note on the porros you mention
I have tried the 8 x 42 WA waterproof (be careful on model as Hawke do some lower quality porros also) and must say imho it is a very high quality image for this price
I compared the model against my Nikon E11 8 x 30 and although the Nikon has an even wider fov and overall had the better image the differential was certainly not a big one
The Hawke 8 x porro felt nice and wide view immediately at the eyes and was both bright and detailed edges fell off a little but no more than most wide angle bins
Twist out eyecups with decent eye relief figures
In a blind test i think i would have been hard pressed to tell this binocular from some much more expensive and well known models
Obviously more extreme tests in lower light conditions and scientific measures may highlight limitations but for general use i thought these were well above the average bar
Build quality seemed decent and they felt/appeared rugged enough but without that "polished" luxury feel some of the big Marques possess
Time will tell once used in the "field" so to speak

I guess its one way of acheiving a great porro image with the advantage of waterproofing etc

I have been considering a wide angle 12 x porro recently and the Hawke 12x would certianly be one i would try amongst others


Just my tuppence worth
Regards
RichT
 
Thanks for the hands-on feedback, RichT. Nice to see they offer good performance at a low price. Hopefully they should be able to make decent roofs at two or three times the price.

The porro I mentioned is the BlackWatch 8X42 WA for $129 but AFAIK it's their only 8x42 porro; the only one mentioned on the web site. It's FOV is about the same width (from the spec) as the wide Nikon Action ATB/EX 7x35 and wider than the equivalent Nikon 8x40. The only one's I've seen similar or a bit wider (more than 9 degrees) are the Russian BPO 7x30 military porros (and their civilian version branded Galileo that goes for $60).

The Hawke porros are not as small or as light as a Nikon small porros (or the BPO 7x30). It's a shame they don't make a x32ish porro but I guess there's not a big (perceived) demand there except from people who read a forum like this and think about their optics (to an excessive degree).

I like porros and mentioned them as most of the "newer" bin brands are ignoring porros and focusing only on roofs so I was pleased to see they still have them in the product line.
 
Hi kevin

Yes the model i tried was the Blackwatch 8 x 42 WA and this side it goes for £79-89 or so
Hawke do make other porros at entry level certainly on UK sites i've seen but to be honest the Blackwatch versions are the ones with the nice specs
I believe one of the bird watching magazines tested this model and came to a praiseworthy conclusion
I suppose its maybe easier to construct a decent porro at this price bracket
Think they are Chinese origin and this probably means the full multi coating will be good but generic as opposed to the upper end Japanese and Euro offerings
More than once i have heard it said Chinese optical coatings are catching up leaps and bounds but still remain ever so slightly behind the top guns
Kunming in China seems to be the source amongst others of some very exciting future products and development
My Minolta Activa WP FP 8 x 40 porros are an example of upper end Chinese offerings and they are a very well made binocular with an image that punches above its weight
Going back on thread hopefully the Hawke ED roofs will be every bit as good value and again i suspect they will be almost as good as the premium marques but a tad short on overall quality
The monetary side of matters can suddenly seem very good value indeed if a product gives 90 % or so performance of premium items rather than say 65-70%

Interesting times lie ahead for the optics industry and users

Regards
RichT
 
Thanks for the data points.

I suspect there may be a difference between what's in the stores and what's on their web site (new old stock and that sort of thing).

The quality of coatings all depends how old the line is at the factory that's turning these out (and for all we know they stopped making them already). They perhaps aren't at Euro 3 level but that also depends on which coating you need. For porros you only need a good multilayer AR coating and that is no longer rocket science. For roofs you need good AR plus a good phase coating and a good mirror coating (either Al, Ag or dielectric). These later coatings is where the Chinese have been catching up recently. And we've seen Zeiss and Bushnell now working on hydrophobic and lipophobic coatings to protect the lens from rain and fingerprints. Bushnell have been licensing that work and were now seeing Chinese OEMs like Promaster using similar coatings.

The roofs also suffer because prism glass quality needs to be better (longer path in glass in a roof than a porro and the Schmidt-Pechan prism acts a bit like an interferometer so it's reveals phase differences in different paths through the prism) and prism manufacturing tolerances are much higher (on a much trickier part to make). The seem to be getting a grip on making these SP prisms too.

It's still much easier to make a good porro than roof (see quite a few evaluations and explanations here especially involving the Leupold Yosemite but I think the Nikon range and the Bushnell Legend and others show this quality too). It seems that the old rule that a roof would cost twice as much but be a third lighter than an optically equivalent porro seems to be closer to "cost three times as much but be a third lighter" (e.g. Leupold Yosemite versus Leupold Katmai).

The final step in getting to high quality optics is just paying attention to details in both design and construction. I have a few lower ends bins that are optically very good but are let down by stray light problems. So playing attention to stray light paths in lens design and getting the "low cost" design details right: like lens edge blackening, good baffles in the right place, interior coating and shaping of barrels and so on all make a huge difference to the final bin.

Regarding "optical cities" there seems to be at least three major concentrations of indigenous optical production today: Kunming, Guangzhou (where Bosma OEMs for Vixen and Televue) and Xi'an (who seem to turn out some very good optics - they seem to have started on Chinese military optics and have some good civilian optics under many names). Plus the Japanese companies have been locating factories there so moving their technology and processes into "their" factories (I think they mostly work closely with OEMs though). Holger Merlitz's reviews also give some insight by comparing (older or military) Euro bins with newer Japanese and Chinese bins.

Check out the Promaster and Mystery Binocular threads on this forum for the discussion of that bin. It's a $500 open-bridge ED design of very good quality. Certainly at least a couple of people with hands on experience of an evaluation Promaster have spent their own money on buying one. That's why I started this thread to point out another similar bin. And that's why I'm trying to persuade them to do a head to head evaluation of the two bins to see if this one just sounds good or if it is actually comparable ;)

We certainly do live in interesting times for optics. Quality optics is dropping dramatically in price and the "mid range" of the market ($100 to $500) is showing some remarkable value. At the same time the Euro 3 prices seem to be heading for the stratosphere (though the weak dollar doesn't help in the US).
 
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I notice that the picture of the ED on the Hawk website is different from the pictures on sellers' sites. I prefer the smoother sellers' version on the right.

Michael
 

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Kevin,

Thanks for the Hawke links. One of those dealers is just 25 miles up the freeway from me. They have some Hawke in stock, but not the Frontier ED. Them; "We can order you one!", Me: So can I order me one, I want to see one first". Man, I get tired of that refrain "sorry we don't have any in stock, but we can order you one!" Seems like that is true for everything. I can understand that for items they have to pay for and may wait a long time to turn over, but on the other hand, how do they know if they'll sell any if they don't stock any. They're probably wise and don't know it with me. Since I have a Promaster, I'm not likely to buy a Hawke. And FWIW I do try to buy from local dealers whose time I use up. Maybe not the binocular but something.

Don't think I can get there this weekend, but I will go by when I have a chance and see what they do have and what I think of them.
 
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For the Brits out there: do Hawke (or their dealers) appear at the Birdfair and similar expos where birder can get hands on with the bins?

Or do they sell Hawke at RSPB reserves (again getting hands on and taking them out for a viewing is easy to do)?
 
They did have a stand at this years Birdfair - the Frontier EDs are hitting the shelves at certain Hawke dealers. They have them near me - twenty so miles from Norwich
 
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