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Hawke Frontier ED 8x36: another 36mm Chinese ED (1 Viewer)

Kevin Purcell

Well-known member
I've not seen these mentioned here.

Specs

HA3770/74 8x36

FOV 459 feet at 1000yards (i.e. 8.6 degrees) or 140m @ 1km (i.e. 8.0 degrees if I got the math right). Clearly one of these is wrong. My guess is the latter is correct.

Interesting. I presume we will see the 8x36 and 10x36 from other manufacturers too in due course.

Of course this is here to persuade the only person I know who has a pair, denniswaugh, to add some review comments before he sells his pair that are currently in the For Sale section (and no he doesn't know I'm providing this link).

http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=151439

Take it away, denniswaugh. How did you like them?
 
Very nice catch Kevin. For whatever reason the link won't work for me. It says I need to log in or something as I do not have permission to access this area.

Strange.

Still, the specs of the 8x36 definitely look interesting. A nice compromise (36 mm objective) with the same, full 420 foot field of view of the usual, better 8x32 crowd.


...and, no, I do not work for Hawke....

;)
 
Comparing the: Hawke FrontierED 8 x 43, 8 x 36 and Zen Ray 7 x 36

Firstly, I do not work for Hawke or any other optics manufacturer and I am not a dealer.

For that matter you will soon discover I am no writer or reviewer.

A forum member suggested I may like to give my opinion/views on the three Chinese ED binoculars that I own.

Hawke Frontier ED 8 x 43, Zen Ray 7 x 36 ED2 and most recently Hawke Frontier ED 8 x 36.


Until recently my main binocular was the Zeiss Victory II 8x40.
I thought the 8x40 a wonderful binocular with one exception, the high level of Chromatic Aberration under bright viewing conditions.

Earlier this year I read somewhere about Chinese ED binoculars that were supposedly capable of competing optically with the top makers.

Through this forum I came across the various reviews of the Promaster/Zen and Hawke Chinese ED binoculars and was impressed with the comments regarding the lack of CA and of course cost .

In June I purchased via mail order the Hawke 8x43 ED. The first pair had a sloppy focus wheel and a black blob of something on one of the prisms. Thankfully the second did not exhibit any obvious defects.

The view through the Hawke 8x43 ED was stunning. Field of view was comparable to the Victory 8x40 and I thought the image through the Hawke to be “richer” than the Zeiss and without any of the CA that the Victory suffered from.

The main negative points with the Hawke were its SIZE and the crap strap that came with them.

In late July a Hawke binocular dealer informed me of the imminent launch (August) of the Hawke 8x36 ED. I placed an order for them.

Due to delays with the launch of the Hawke 8 x 36, I pre ordered the ZenRay 7x36 ED2.

The ZenRay 7 x 36 arrived early September and I received the Hawke 8 x 36 early October.

Below is my view on the three binoculars.

Physical size and Handling

Heightmm Weight grams

Hawke Frontier ED 8 x 43 165 850*
Zen Ray ED2 7 x 36 150 750
Hawke Frontier ED 8 x 36 145 710



The weights were measured on cheap kitchen scales. All binoculars had rain guard and lens caps fitted.

The specifications for the 8 x 43 from some sources state a weight of 745g. This must be incorrect.

Although the weight differences between the Zen 7 x 36 and Hawke 8 x 36 are small, the Hawke feels appreciably lighter than the 7 x 36.

This weight difference combined with the slightly shorter length makes the Hawke 8 x 36 feel more compact than these differences suggest on paper.


FOV

The Hawke 8 x 36 states a FOV of 420ft@1000 yds while the 8 x 43 states 426ft&1000yds.

I cannot accurately measure the FOV but to my eyes the difference in FOV is negligible between the Hawkes. The Zen’s have an appreciably larger FOV 477ft@1000 yds.

However, the actual view through the 8 x 36 looks a little smaller than both 8 x 43 and 7 x 36.

I wear spectacles and I think this observation may be due to the differences in ocular size.

Occular size
8x 36 21mm
7 x 36 26mm
8 x 43 24mm


Resolution and Contrast.

Central resolution is excellent for all three.
The sweet spot is smaller with the 8 x 36, resolution starting to fall away towards the edge sooner than the 8 x 43. To my eyes the sweet spot from the 7 x 36 is just a little better than the 8 x 43.

In bright conditions the contrast from all three is very good.
Overcast conditions the 8 x 43 is top followed by the 7x36 and the 8 x 36.
I think this is to be expected.

Colour cast.
Apologies for the following clumsy description of colour differences.

The me the view through the Zen 7 x 36 presents a slightly “bluer”, bolder image with a little more contrast, while both Hawke’s look neutral to very slightly yellow.
The differences are hardly perceptible and I only notice this when I am directly comparing the views between them.

Chromatic Aberration.

Under bright conditions I can see virtually no CA in the 8 x 43 and Zen 7 x 36.
The Hawke 8 x 36 does show a little more. My Zeiss Victory 8 x 40 was far worse.

My simple test for this is to look at aerials both close and at long distance against a bright sky.


Conclusion.

I like the handling and compactness of the Hawke 8 x 36 over the Hawke 8 x 43.

If the 8 x 36 were released before the 8 x 43, I don’t think I would have felt the need to go and look through the 8 x 43.

The Zen 7 x 36 was almost my perfect binocular. I love the FOV and the colour rendition of the Zen but find I have to constantly fiddle with my eye placement to minimise the reflections/glare that occurs under certain conditions.

After revisiting the 8 x 43, I am more comfortable with the view provided by the 8 x 43 over both of the smaller binoculars.

IMO the view through the 8 x 43 is more comfortable and (outweighs) the size and weight disadvantage over the smaller Hawke and Zen Ray. I have decided to keep them.

Hawke Frontier ED 8 x 36 and Zen Ray 7 x 36 ED2 will shortly be for sale.
 
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FOV

The Hawke 8 x 36 states a FOV of 720ft@1000 yds while the 8 x 43 states 726ft&1000yds.

holy schmoly, 726ft FOV? Tell me it is a typo. You just got my heart racing.;)

in ocular size.

Occular size
8x 36 21mm
7 x 36 26mm
8 x 43 24mm

Is the ocular size measured on the exposed glass only? If so, the 26mm on 7x36 ZEN2 is probably the biggest I have seen. I have a summit, the size is about 22mm. I think Swarovski new EL will come out with bigger ocular too. Does that have anything to with the FOV?
 
Woop's

Yes it was a typo. I should have read what I wrote.

The 26mm of the Zen is measured from the exposed glass of the ocular.

The difference in height between the Hawke 8 x 36 and Zen 7 x 36 is because of the eyepiece design.

Please see the photo
 

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The sweet spot is smaller with the 8 x 36, resolution starting to fall away towards the edge sooner than the 8 x 43.
This seems to be almost the case with all brands. Why is that?
 
The (ad link) link works fine (just checked!) ... you need to be logged in to see the classified ads at BF.

Thanks for the write up Dennis, that was very interesting (a good comparison too!).

The ED2 looks bluer (or less warm is perhaps a better description) because it's using a dielectric mirror in the roof prism that "flattens" out the transmission curve a bit (assuming similar AR coatings). The silver coated prisms are a bit "warmer".

And you sayd "The difference in height between the Hawke 8 x 36 and Zen 7 x 36 is because of the eyepiece design."

Do you mean eyecup design? I presume the Hawke stuck with the "Hawke/ZenRay 43mm" rounded eyecups whereas the Zen Ray 36mm uses the flatter "Promaster" eyecups? Which style eyecups does the Hawke 36mm use?

And it sounds like the FOV is closer to 8.0 than 8.6 degrees. About the same ballpark as the other Chinese ED 8x43s.

The reason they're different in resolution across the field is due to a different EP design (slightly short focal length to match the shorter focal length of the objective) which may leave them a little less room to maneuver.

For a given 8x magnification the brightness will be the same in the 43mm and 36mm during the day when your entrance pupil is 4mm or less, Tero. Your eyes entrance pupil stops down the bins in daylight. You'll only notice a difference in brightness in that half an hour of twilight and at night.

NWBirder: Ocular size goes up as ER and acceptance angle increase so its a useful proxy for both of those parameters (particularly ER). Look at an old set of porros with "shirtbutton" oculars and you know what I mean about ER.

It seems there is a 36mm open-bridge enclosure out there so perhaps we'll see more of these from different suppliers (Eagle Optics hinted at that a while back) though there aren't any other than Hawke at the moment.
 
Kevin, what do you make of these 36s? Or any others. I have not had one for a while, always the 32mm or 42mm.
 
Kevin,

I've not seen the Promaster but looking at the design of the Hawkes and ZEN 7X 36 you are correct. The Zen 7 x 36 is flat compared to the Hawke.

The barrels of both Hawke 8 x 36 and Zen 7 x 36 are the same length/height. The extra height of the Zen is due to the eyepiece/ocular design. I have highlighted the difference in the photo.

Please see the two photo's
 

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Fascinating comparison, Dennis. Interesting that, after listing the pros and cons of each, you finally settled on the one with which YOU are 'comfortable', in my opinion the most important criterion. So if you'd bought the Hawke 8x36 first, you might never have had an opportunity to conclude the 8x43 suits you best, even it it's not altogether perfect...
 
Woop's

Yes it was a typo. I should have read what I wrote.

The 26mm of the Zen is measured from the exposed glass of the ocular.

The difference in height between the Hawke 8 x 36 and Zen 7 x 36 is because of the eyepiece design.

Please see the photo

The ocular lens size for my binoculars collections:
Swaro EL 8.5x42: 22mm
ZEN ED 8x43: 24mm
ZEN ED2 7x36: 26mm.

According to Dale from Swarovski, the new EL will come out with 26mm ocular lens too.
 
Kevin, what do you make of these 36s? Or any others. I have not had one for a while, always the 32mm or 42mm.

I like them, especially for this "longer" open bridge design.

The 7x36 (or even the 8x36) seems like an ideal combination: good feel in the hand for size and weight plus a nice exit pupil size.

I think the 9x36 could be an interesting combo too (4mm exit pupil for those that like a little more magnification but find 10x a bit too much for a whole day).

Might I raise the "glare question". How do the three different bins compare with stray light, Dennis?
 
Kevin,

The reflections/glare that I commented on affected the Zen 7 x 36.

Holger Merlitz review of the Zen 7 x 36 http://www.holgermerlitz.de/zen7x36.html highlights this problem far better than I could describe it.

As far as I am concerned the Hawke 8 x 43 and 8 x 36 do not suffer from this particular problem.

Sometimes the 8 x 36 and to a lesser extent the 8 x 43 can exhibit a very slight veil (haze) in very bright conditions.
 
The ED2 looks bluer (or less warm is perhaps a better description) because it's using a dielectric mirror in the roof prism that "flattens" out the transmission curve a bit (assuming similar AR coatings). The silver coated prisms are a bit "warmer".


Is this what Ron's graph shows in another thread?

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1608841&postcount=4

The ZEN Ed2 7x36 has the highest transmission in the short wavelength.

Although it was not advertised, can we interpret that Swarovski uses dielectric prism coating too? :t:
 
Had a chance to try out a Hawke ED 8x36 this afternoon while pottering in Norwich, they're quite a bit bigger than I imaged but still feel nice and nimble in the hands compared to their bigger brother the 8x43 model.

First tried out an ex demo Opticron SR GA porro as they were only £99, they had a perfectly stiff and stable bridge mechansim but despite trying couldn't get a liking for the optics...my curiosity led me to try the Hawkes.

Optically the little Hawkes were a gem, I couldn't really detect the increased field of view (probably due to looking down a busy city high street) but everything else was perfect...they do have the expected limited depth of focus over large models but they snapped into perfect focus from near focus to infinity. Brightness was very good making all appear brighter and crisper with own eyes one might expect from a binocular from one of the big four!! Build quality was also very impressive, the focus having none of the squelchiness of one or two of the 8x43 models I'd previously tried...though still a little slow.

M
 
Anyone care to update this thread?

Particularly keen on hearing how any 8x36 users are getting on with these glasses in the field and how they might compare to the larger 8x42 model.

Please no comments about the Zen models, I'm only interested in hearing about the Hawkes!!

Matt
 
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