Birding binoculars vs. hunting binoculars (1 Viewer)

Satisfaction with binoculars largely comes down to the perspectives of the user. Perspectives are created, developed, and nurtured by marketers. It is marketing to make us think that actually spending our money on their stuff was really our idea in the first place.

Make hunters/birders think they have different needs just makes two separate market groups. Thinking hunters or hunting guides need different binoculars makes no more sense than thinking all birders use the same binocular. The perspective of the user dictates the choice. Change the scenery, the binocular needs change. The satisfaction level depends on whether or not our purchase quieted the little gnat in our subconscious to shut the heck up and let us go use the binocular. Some perspectives require spending a lot more money than may be needed by other perspectives. A Bill points out, some perspectives require keeping up with the Jones's.

jgraider said:

I will be the first to agree on the minimal, if any, difference between birding and hunting glass. I will say though, that after having app 120 hunters in camp over the past 10-12 years, and having seen most all the high end glass except for recent Zeiss HT, UV HD+, or Niko EDG.....my newly acquired Swaro SV 10x42 is the sharpest, most complete hunting binocular I've ever seen. The view is utterly fantastic.

I have never seen a Leica show up in my camp, with the exception of a couple of Geovid's. Hunter's have little patience for crappy service and warranties.

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JG:

It is good to see you are pleased with your latest purchase.
I know you previously had the 10x42 SLC HD, and so I thought
you would be happy at that point.

What differences do you like better about the SV?

I really like the winged eyecups from Swaro., and the ocular cover that comes with these is much better
than the hard one.

Jerry

Steve C said:

Satisfaction with binoculars largely comes down to the perspectives of the user. Perspectives are created, developed, and nurtured by marketers. It is marketing to make us think that actually spending our money on their stuff was really our idea in the first place.

Make hunters/birders think they have different needs just makes two separate market groups. Thinking hunters or hunting guides need different binoculars makes no more sense than thinking all birders use the same binocular. The perspective of the user dictates the choice. Change the scenery, the binocular needs change. The satisfaction level depends on whether or not our purchase quieted the little gnat in our subconscious to shut the heck up and let us go use the binocular. Some perspectives require spending a lot more money than may be needed by other perspectives. A Bill points out, some perspectives require keeping up with the Jones's.

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Bingo!

Maljunulo said:

Bingo!

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Steve C said:

Satisfaction with binoculars largely comes down to the perspectives of the user. Perspectives are created, developed, and nurtured by marketers. It is marketing to make us think that actually spending our money on their stuff was really our idea in the first place.

Make hunters/birders think they have different needs just makes two separate market groups. Thinking hunters or hunting guides need different binoculars makes no more sense than thinking all birders use the same binocular. The perspective of the user dictates the choice. Change the scenery, the binocular needs change. The satisfaction level depends on whether or not our purchase quieted the little gnat in our subconscious to shut the heck up and let us go use the binocular. Some perspectives require spending a lot more money than may be needed by other perspectives. A Bill points out, some perspectives require keeping up with the Jones's.

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Steve:

Many of us agree about how the optics that are important work well
for birders, hunters and general observers.

As far as the marketing, it looks you are taken with the customization
thing offered by your newest favorite.

For me, I think that customization is just kids play. It does not
impress me at all. Most hunters do not care much about what
the color is of their bracelet. :king:

Jerry

Jerry, when it gets down to it I'm really a big old softie. Years ago I "graduated" from a Leica Trinovid 10x42 BA, to a Gold Ring HD, a binocular I still own and use. A few years after that is when the SLC HD came along, and LL Bean came out with a promotional 40% off so I had to have one. I loved that one as well, from the ergos, glass, Swaro backing the product, etc. Then came the Meopta HD, and I loved that one too. To make a long story short, my nephew graduated from college so I gave him the GR HD. My best bud from Louisiana's son graduated from college last year, so I gave him the Meopta HD. My son graduated from college, so he inherited the SLC HD. I still had another GR HD stashed away when Cabelas was blowing them out for $600, so that is what I used last year. I wasn't necessarily in the market for SV's (as you know via PM's), but a local buddy's neighbor had a LNIB pair of 10x42's, I had two rifles he wanted, so we swapped. Is that long winded enough for you?

Anyway. There are a few things I really, really like. Now I have 54 yr old eyes, but obviously they are extremely sharp, I see no rolling ball in them, crisp and clear to the edges, and I really like the slow focus. I can wring out the last bit of sharpness very easily, something I had a bit more of a struggle with when using the SLC HD's. I've never really been hung up on the perceived advantages of a flat field, but it is very noticeably fantastic.....I really have come to like it. It's a toss up as to whether I like the ergos better, but I'd still give a very slight edge to the SLC's. Yes.....both of the focus mechanisms twist easier one way than the other. Not a deal killer by any means, but it is noticeable. The colors are more vivid through the SV's. I will say this though, even though the view is a bit better through the SV's than these GR HD's, it's not by a huge margin. Those GR's are a remarkably great binocular IMO, and have a much smoother focuser.

Jerry,

Your post illustrates that there are indeed different perspectives among users. I find it odd that the Maven customization process bugs you like it does. Different perspectives are just that...different. Not better or worse, just different. You seem to feel that the only worthwhile optics is one that costs an arm and a leg, and if that does not seem to be the case, you are plain uninterested. I am interested it seems in a far wider range. We're different...not one better than the other, just different.

jgraider said:

The colors are more vivid through the SV's.

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That is the thing which really struck me about mine.

The wing patches on a male Red-winged Blackbird, for instance, are practically fluorescent, or the bright yellow of a Great Blue Heron's iris.

Breathtaking.

jgraider said:

Jerry, when it gets down to it I'm really a big old softie. Years ago I "graduated" from a Leica Trinovid 10x42 BA, to a Gold Ring HD, a binocular I still own and use. A few years after that is when the SLC HD came along, and LL Bean came out with a promotional 40% off so I had to have one. I loved that one as well, from the ergos, glass, Swaro backing the product, etc. Then came the Meopta HD, and I loved that one too. To make a long story short, my nephew graduated from college so I gave him the GR HD. My best bud from Louisiana's son graduated from college last year, so I gave him the Meopta HD. My son graduated from college, so he inherited the SLC HD. I still had another GR HD stashed away when Cabelas was blowing them out for $600, so that is what I used last year. I wasn't necessarily in the market for SV's (as you know via PM's), but a local buddy's neighbor had a LNIB pair of 10x42's, I had two rifles he wanted, so we swapped. Is that long winded enough for you?....

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Cabela’s Ft. Worth....1999

Salesman #1: Hey, Clem, you won’t believe it, but this here hunter just came in and bought that 10x42 BA that’s been sittin’ on the shelf for four years.

Salesman #2: Do what? You say he bought the Leica? I was fixin’ to ding it and stick it in the bargain cave.

Salesman #1: Yeah, I never thought we'd sell that dang thing.

Salesman #2: Did he sound like he was from Texas or was he a Yankee?

Salesman #1: He didn’t jaw much, so I asked him if his high school was a 5a, 4a, 3a, 2a, or 1a, he said he went to private school, and he paid with a GOLD Mastercard.

Salesman #2: A Yank.

Salesman #1: I reckon (spits his chew juice into the floor spittoon, as if to put a period on the conversation).

My meemaw on my father’s side was born in Galveston, Oh, Galvestttton!

Btw, I’m going to graduate with a certificate in technical communications in the fall, just in case you run out of kin to give your old bins to…

Brock

brocknroller said:

Cabela’s Ft. Worth....1999

Salesman #1: Hey, Clem, you won’t believe it, but this here hunter just came in and bought that 10x42 BA that’s been sittin’ on the shelf for four years.

Salesman #2: Do what? You say he bought the Leica? I was fixin’ to ding it and stick it in the bargain cave.

Salesman #1: Yeah, I never thought we'd sell that dang thing.

Salesman #2: Did he sound like he was from Texas or was he a Yankee?

Salesman #1: He didn’t jaw much, so I asked him if his high school was a 5a, 4a, 3a, 2a, or 1a, he said he went to private school, and he paid with a GOLD Mastercard.

Salesman #2: A Yank.

Salesman #1: I reckon (spits his chew juice into the floor spittoon, as if to put a period on the conversation).

My meemaw on my father’s side was born in Galveston, Oh, Galvestttton!

Btw, I’m going to graduate with a certificate in technical communications in the fall, just in case you run out of kin to give your old bins to…

Brock

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Brock,

That hunter should have read the Cabela Sale flyers they mailed out on a regular basis in those good old days. Cabelas often listed lots of binoculars in those flyers and many were Leica and Zeiss binoculars that had been discontinued.

I bought a brand new discontinued Leica 7x42 Trinovid BN from one of those Cabela sale flyers after the Ultravids had replaced the Trinovids. It's price was $799.00 and it came with that little zippered glove leather case and a Leica Lifetime Warranty card. I understand that in the unlikely event that this brick of a binocular gets totally destroyed and I can salvage the part with the Serial Number on it Leica will replace it for me. Not that this is likely to happen.

When I got it I immediately compared it to my old Leitz 7x42 Trinovid BA and was very surprised at how much brighter overall it was than the Leitz and how the colors stood out in comparison to the yellow color cast that the Leitz showed.

I would make a comment on how it handles CA but I don't see CA in normal every day use such as in sunny or cloudy or rainy conditions. It is a very pleasant binocular to use with its long eye relief and 8º FOV and I have not experienced any problems with glare while using it. Although it is considered by some to be rather compact for a 7x42 it fits my big hands very well. It is compact much in the way that Rocky Marciano was compact.

You can take this binocular with you to any place in the world and use it for anything: Birding, Hunting, Sea Faring and, if you wish, travel to Antarctica. I intend to give it to one of my sons with instructions that he give it to one of his children when he or she is ready for one of these mechanical marvels from the 1st decade of the 21st Century!:t:

I have kept its little leather case in top condition with a fine leather conditioner.

Bob

ceasar said:

When I got it I immediately compared it to my old Leitz 7x42 Trinovid BA and was very surprised at how much brighter overall it was than the Leitz and how the colors stood out in comparison to the yellow color cast that the Leitz showed.

...
Bob

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Hello Bob,


If memorty serves me correctly, the Leitz BA was not phase coated. That might have made a difference.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

Pinewood said:

Hello Bob,


If memorty serves me correctly, the Leitz BA was not phase coated. That might have made a difference.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

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Hi Arthur,

Yes, I know that the earlier (1982) Leitz binoculars like mine were not phase coated. I understand that the some made late in the 80's did have phase coatings. But I think that its other, older coatings were more responsible for its lower measure of brightness.

As for my own Leitz 7x42, I still think it is still a very useable binocular, even if it doesn't have phase coating; primarily because of it's 6mm exit pupil. It is, AFAIK, the only 42mm binocular in the Leitz Uppendahl Prism series. The 8's and 10's were 40mm binoculars.

I tend to agree with John Dracon's comments about PC in the 3rd paragraph of his post in the link below:

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3230958&postcount=4

I think the Leitz 7x42 is one binocular where it really is harder to see the difference between phase and non-phase coatings.

Cheers,

Bob

Bob - I had the Leitz 7x42 (pre P coating & armored) at one time and liked it. It went to a son-in-law as a gift. But as fate would have it, my daughter divorced him against my wishes, and I find it hard to ask for things back. Ah, the joys of parenthood.

If Leica replicated that model with P coating I would buy one in a heart beat.

John

John Dracon said:

Bob - I had the Leitz 7x42 (pre P coating & armored) at one time and liked it. It went to a son-in-law as a gift. But as fate would have it, my daughter divorced him against my wishes, and I find it hard to ask for things back. Ah, the joys of parenthood.

If Leica replicated that model with P coating I would buy one in a heart beat.

John

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Ah, yes, another retro bin advocate!

But let me ask you this. If you hadn't given him the Leitz 7x42, would you have cared whether or not she divorced him?

<B>

Brock - I was and am still very fond of this son-in-law. And the one before him, too. And now there is a third son in-law. He has more toys than I have.( you get the picture)

Actually, I would have refused to take it back had he offered to do so. But he didn't. The gift came after the marriage, not before. I was just trying to inject a little humor with my comment. I'm not really bemoaning the loss of the 7x42.
John

John Dracon said:

Brock - I was and am still very fond of this son-in-law. And the one before him, too. And now there is a third son in-law. He has more toys than I have.( you get the picture)

Actually, I would have refused to take it back had he offered to do so. But he didn't. The gift came after the marriage, not before. I was just trying to inject a little humor with my comment. I'm not really bemoaning the loss of the 7x42.
John

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John;

I'm one up on you, my daughter has gone through three.

Maljunulo said:

John;

I'm one up on you, my daughter has gone through three.

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Sounds like your daughters are to husbands like some of us members are to binoculars.

I've acquired a variety of binoculars over the years up to a new pair of Swarovski 8x32 EL's. When all is said and done my favorite pair to grab and go is the old Vortex 6.5x30. I do a fair amount of hunting and spotting. The worst thing I did for a hunt was take a pair of 10x42's. The smaller FOV made them about useless on an elk hunt south of Cody WY. I'll take a lower power 99% of the time. Carry a spotter and tripod for the rest.

45 - I echo your comments on the Vortex described. As one grows older, there is IMO a kind of metamorphosis that takes place with binocular users who use them frequently. They tend to drift to lower power binoculars for reasons. No one grows steadier as they age. It just doesn't happen. Nor, generally, does their eye sight improve.
It is an established biological fact that for the over whelming majority of users, their own exit pupils began to shrink as they age. Just look at a young child who seems to be all pupils. Then start looking at the eyes of adults as they grow older. Look at their pupils in day light or at dusk.

A six power binocular on a solid rest will reveal a great amount of detail that is not causing a handicap with users. The can see sufficient detail compared to a hand held binocular of 8 or 10 power. Steadiness improves the recognition of details. Also, since most 6 power binoculars use 30 mm objectives lens, the exit pupil of 5 mm is probably one of the most important features for alignment and ease of use. But to get that in 8 power requires a 40 mm lens; in 10 power, a 50 mm lens, which automatically increases the size, weight, and cost of the instrument. Assuming we are looking through a quality binocular, the power and the exit pupil become the "critical mass" , IMO of ease of use and detail recognition, not a higher power.

When one reviews the history of Zeiss, it is apparent that although they made many different power binoculars, the classic ones were the 7x50 and the 8x30. The 7x50 simply trumps the 8x30 with its generous 7mm exit pupil. Young men as lookouts were on naval ships using the 7x50 because they could use every bit of light coming through the 7x50 looking for submarines. The admirals on the bridge didn't have to hoist those monsters too often or chafe their necks carrying them around. The soldiers in the European fields found the 8x30 quite useful. Why not 6x30s? Tradition dies hard in all countries.

The US armed forces during WW2 and Korea had basically two choices: the time honored 7x50 and the 6x30, the latter being a better choice for terrestrial users than the 8x30. The US settled on the 6x30 because it found after comprehensive assessments, the average soldier could see better with a lower power binocular.

Human biology hasn't changed over the years. I can cite from real experience. As an 18 year old, I found myself in Korea shortly after the armistice was signed, but we were jarred when one of our sentries was killed one night, stabbed by an unknown person. As a young Marine I walked guard duty at night full of apprehension. This was before night vision stuff was available. Our only asset were having young eyes and a realistic rule of engagement to follow.

We carried the M1 with 7 rounds in the clip, and a live round in the chamber with the safety off and finger on the trigger. We were ordered to shoot to kill anyone who refused to be identified or refused to halt. It was that simple. No political correctness, no asking for permission from a higher order.

If the reader of this thinks I am exaggerating, they are mistaken. One night I captured a Korean infiltrator who was hiding by a truck. He was 15 feet from eternity when he was looking at the end of my rifle and decided to cooperate and drop a bag of stolen gear including a .45, wallets, knives, and tools. These came out of a motor pool tent he had slashed into that night.

Yes, I was a little bit scared, but he didn't know that I evolved from a hunting culture and had killed many mammals: deer, elk, bear, antelope included. I was use to pulling the trigger. Shooting him almost happened. He was just lucky that night. We were trained by Iwo Jima survivors, who were the meanest, nastiest, profane men alive. They knocked us around for a purpose. This was before all the kinder, gentler nonsense began.

When we walked guard duty, we prayed for a full moon night. I could actually see quite well at night at age 18. But when the skies were cloudy and the wind was blowing and the monsoons were pouring, and you are robbed of most of your senses, your nerves are on edge. And you need nothing to keep your imagination from poking you. I salute our young men and women who are asked today to do their duty under enormous handicaps as they serve us. Sorry for the aside, but it does relate to binoculars, my binocular vision of one power I always carry with me.

IMO most birders could use a healthy dose of 6x30 use from a quality binocular. I predict as they grow older, it will become a binocular of great use.

John

That was an awesome case for the 6x30!
My current fave size is the plain 7x35, but I have
a fair number of 6x30s.
The Wuest(Ofuna) H-19 is my favorite IF Korean War era design.
The Vega Minerva and the Meopta MeoPro are excellent for mid and full-modern CFs.

The military gets a lot of pressure for more power, but it's good to see
they have only slipped to 7x28s. Giant packloads and available night gear
probably effected that.

John,

Thank you for your service- it is appreciated! And I always enjoy your posts here.

I agree with what has been said above concerning low power and bigger exit pupil binoculars for both birding and hunting. My main binoculars for both pursuits have been 7 and 6 power. I used a 7x26 and 6x25 Bushnell/ B&L customs; a 7x30 Swaro SLC; a 6x30 Leupold Yosemite; and even my main binocular for many years was a 7x35 Bushnell. And I also used a couple of 10x sparingly along with spotters.

The last 6 years I have dove into an increased interest in optics and have had and added a number of 8x binoculars. Everything from a 8x42 Swaro SLC HD; 8x32 SV; 8x30 SLC; 8x30 Swaro Habicht porro; 8x32 Nikon SE; 8x30 Nikon E II; and a couple of 8x Leupold's. And up until recently I would have told you that my favorite format was a 8x30/32 ( mostly because they don't really make many 7x30-35 binoculars anymore.

Recently my thinking has changed a bit. That is because of recent experience with a couple 7x42 Swarovski's- a SLC NEU, and a new Swaro Habicht porro. Having the 7x42 SLC NEU now is kind of ironic for me because prior to to my purchase of my 7x30 SLC in the mid 90's I had a 7x42 SLC for a couple weeks. I found it a bit too heavy for me ( still is heavy); and the shop owner graciously allowed me to return the 7x42 SLC and swap it out for a 7x30.

Since using the 7x42 Swaro's recently I have found my self simply in love with their view. Both are different in size, and weight ( 11 oz separate them)- I love the view through both for slightly different reasons. The SLC NEU has this great big wide FOV, with a sharp almost to very edge view. And it's colors and contrast are very nice. And it is so meaty, steady and robust- the proverbial tank of a bino. The Habicht is very, very sharp- it's absolute resolving ability is slightly greater than the SLC NEU. It is amazing how sharp these Swaro Habichts are- especially the latest ones with the advantage of all of the Swarovski updated coatings. And the view through the Habicht is a bit more neutral color wise compared to the SLC. And the Habicht is a lot lighter than the SLC - it weighs only 23 oz. But... The Habicht has a much narrower FOV and the eye cups are certainly not as simple and easy to deal with. Also the Habicht is probably a bit more fragile than the SLC. But it is a classic binocular with a simple superb amazingly sharp view.

So which one do I like more? The answer is it is really a toss up for different reasons. I like them both a lot. That is why even though they seem to be duplicates as far as both being 7x42 Swaro's- they each have different attributes that lend themselves to different viewing and carrying reasons. So I will most likely keep and enjoy both of them.

I still have a couple of 8x powers ( 8x30 Swaro SLC NEU, and a 8x32 Leupold Mojave, and an inexpensive loaner 8x42 REI)- but in the future I can see my self mostly using these 7x Swaro's and my 6x30 Leupold's more than the 8x powers that I have. In fact, other than the Swaro 8x30 SLC NEU being a classic very nice binocular, I do not see it getting a lot of use. My thoughts on all this may change over time, but right now I am mesmerized by this 7x and 6mm exit pupil view.

So for rambling a bit- not sure if my comments lended much to to topic at hand.